Kirby vs. Bowser

[t!MmY]

Go Nashun! Vids, please.

 

[Buttcrust]

This proves that I am once again correct and thus victorious. Kiss my ring all. No one believed me when I said it. Now who's laughing? Hahahaha!

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i am, because that single set doesn't really mean much lol

 

[TakDragon7]

Pretty much, Bowser can pwn Kirby very easily.

 

[Nashun]

Gimpy, you going to Oc3?

 

[t!MmY]

Yes, Gimpyface. Are you going to 0C3?
(Looks sidelong at Nashun)

 

[Dodger]

Unfortunately, there are no vids. But I can vouch for Nashun that he did indeed beat Arash's Bowser. Not that any of you would doubt him anyway. :-)

 

[Sushiman]

Go team Kirby! <(^_^)>

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i'll money match any kirby at oc3, or at fcx, i'm trying to go to both

 

[captainlukey]

i'll money match any kirby at oc3, or at fcx, i'm trying to go to both

be careful gimpy.... these kirbys are gettin good... one can beat my falco....
ive seen your stuff gimpy but believe me dude some of them are off the hook..; even against an awesome bowser like yours...

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i'm aware that kirby's can be played effectively, i'm also not worried at all

 

[squaminator]

this thread will go down as a legend.

 

[Buttcrust]

When this is all said and done I expect a written apology begging for my forgivness for ever doubting me and my smash knowledge and a batch of brownies from everyone who said Kirby doesn't beat Bowser heads-up.

On a more serious note, and this is in no way meant to downplay anyone, but Nashun (though based on the small bit of video I've seen and what he's said on here leads me to think he's one of the best Kirbys around) is not considered a top Kirby player and has, to my knowledge, never even been thought of as one of the best Kirbys stateside. Arash is widely known and considered by many to be the best Bowser player in the world next to Gimpyfish and some would argue that he's even the best.

I don't know if maybe you guys play each other fairly regularly or not, but this fact alone suggests that what I said in an earlier thread about Kirby being a borderline counterpick for Bowser is true. Obviously my Kirby vs Gorija, or Gimpy, etc would be different based soley on skill differences. But again, assuming equal skill level, this match is comparable to Fox vs DK (about 3/4 of the matches going to Fox, if not more).

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i completely disagree with the basis for your aguments

its an abnormal matchup, where bowser needs to make more adjustments than kirby does, it catches bowser offguard for a while and makes bowser really easy to hit, while kirby is not. knowledge of the match and its spacing would give bowser a VERY clear advantage, but until that thematch obviously goes in kirby's favor.

 

[Nashun]

It was the first time I've ever even met Arash. Our set had no warmups whatsoever.

I'm considered the best Kirby in SoCal, but I've never heard of any Kirby in NorCal so does that make me one of the best Kirbies stateside?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

it probably makes you teh best in the state aw yeahhhhhhh

 

[Buttcrust]

It was the first time I've ever even met Arash. Our set had no warmups whatsoever.

I'm considered the best Kirby in SoCal, but I've never heard of any Kirby in NorCal so does that make me one of the best Kirbies stateside?

My personal opinion is that you are. But in every discussion I've seen here or elsewhere all anyone talks about is KrazyKirbyKid, Kirbstir, Omnigamer, King_Kirby90, and T!mmy. All of them, except King_Kirby90, live in the good ol' US of A.

My point is that Arash is more well-known and thus universally accepted as a great player whereas Nashun is not a name that many outside hardcore WC and us Kirby boarders would recognize. Now obviously there are other reasons why this is, but Arash has done something to set himself apart from other players and Nashun hasn't so much.

Now personally I have not seen enough of either to say who is better, if either is, but the logical conclusion that most will come to, and rightfully so, is that Arash got beat by a relatively unknown, and thus less skilled, player. (95% of people out there are under the impression that being unknown automatically makes you bad at smash which is grossly untrue. Chances are there aren't any unknown Ken's out there, but there's even only 1 known Ken.)

Unknown match-up? I spoke in length about it and I've only played it maybe 5 times ever. It is nothing a little thought couldn't tell you. Clearly much of it goes out the window once you actually start playing, but spacing is not something that is difficult to adjust to based on character. Kirby's spacing is nearly identical to Jiggles only with less mobility. I know you Bowsers play many Jigglys. Knowledge of the match goes both ways and is again nothing that you couldn't really determine beforehand.

I agree completely that Bowser has adjustments to make. But to say that the adjustments Bowser must make are greater, and even so much so that it changes the winner of the match, is incorrect. Kirby has to adjust to Bowser's spacing even more so I'd say because one wrong step can become death at just about any percent with Bowser's power and Kirby's inane ability to die easily. If Bowser messes up the chance for punishment that severe is very limited to stage, where you are at on the stage, and current damage.

Kirby just beats Bowser. Bowser is to easily edgeguarded here and not so much the other way around. Bowser can be comboed fairly effectively. The only thing Bowser really has going for him in this match-up is that he can KO Kirby at low percentages. Much of Bowser's success comes from his power to knock people off the stage and f-tilt edgeguard which simply does not work as well against Kirby unless he needs all of his jumps to reach the edge. And one mistake here can mean a swallowcide for Kirby. Kirby just beats Bowser.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

I think if kirby is gonna win, he needs to abuse the tilts out of WD. I think he also needs to be better than the Bowser.

 

[Buttcrust]

I'll be waiting for your brownies, good sir!

 

[skellitorman]

In my opinion i think that kirby has alot going for him in this matchup. He has good effective tilts against bowser. He can edgegaurd bowser pretty easily. Kirby firebreath is supposedly better than bowser firebreath. Also i like to disagree with mny ppl on kirbies KOing ability. I think he has STRONG KOing moves. His Upsmash, his Uair, and his Hammer. If sweet spotted the uSmash could kill Bowser at around 110 percent in final D. The hammer could kill Bower around 95 percent in final D. And the Uair is very strong as we all know. If you are good with slow moves or have good setups then u can hit with slow moves. Just like bowser can hit with his f smash. Kirby also has a decent strength back air, and a slow but decent in strength forward smash. If you knock Bowser out you should be able to kill him with edgegaurding. Also kirby is a small target and can dodge most of Bowser's moves.

As far as Bowser goes id have to say that the fortress is very deadly against kirby. Bowser can kill kirby at very low percentages with many of his moves but he actually has to HIT with them.
I think a pro bowser obviously is good, but i think a pro kirby can out maeneuver a bowser with his quickness like how fox does to kirby. Please keep in mind that i do main as kirby And that this is just my opinion

 

[Gimpyfish62]

everyone keeps saying bowser is easy to edgeguard haha kirby cant kill bowser till like 180% with his back air if thats what you mean, and also he isn't that easy to edgeguard in general

 

[squaminator]

you can get above the bowser and dair him out of his up+b, or dmsmash it.

i'm out of ideas.

 

[skellitorman]

wel if he is above u, then u can go for a u air or a f air or b air, or u can wait till he is near u and catch him with w/e attack that wuld kill him or u culd continue to edgegaurd him until he dies. D tilt or downsmash or w/e. You could also grab the edge if u know he is going for the sweetspot.

 

[KevinM]

Yea with just DI'ing upwards a bowser against a kirby will live until like, 180 to 200 percent... kirby is simply too weak.. Kirby is in no way a counter

 

[Nashun]

I'm sure Arash knows how to DI and I don't remember him ever getting past 150%, even on Dreamland.

 

[skellitorman]

i dont know what you are talking about with that 180-200 percent. Either kirby is alot stronger than you think or Bowser is lighter than you think, or you are talking about some stage like dreamland or some really big stage. On final D kirby can kill bowser with upsmash at around 110-120 percent with his flip kick. (before flip kick at around 110- 120%) He can also kill bowser at around 90-100% with the ground hammer. He can kill Bowser with the Uair at mayb 120-130%. He can also edgegaurd bowser with the dsmash to hit him sideways or he could meteor him with d air for a KO at lower percents. And don't give me that crap that those moves are too slow, or have too little range, cause if you are very skilled then you will learn how to hit with these slow moves, or the moves with little range. I mean a pro jiggly puff can hit ppl with his DownB and that has tiny range, and Pro Bowsers have hit with slow moves like Fsmash so don't give me that. You just got to practice with them and have good setupsand good timing.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

UP SMASH AND GROUND HAMMER.
thats all i have to say about the previous post lol

 

[KevinM]

My mistake then apologies for all i forgot that Kirby had some kill moves, i guess Gimpy was right, if i ever play a kirby i am going to have to make some serious adjustments

 

[JesiahTEG]

this thread is legendary

 

[Buttcrust]

U-smash isn't bad if you combo into it after u-tilts. And arial hammer has its uses...

 

[Nashun]

I use ground hammer more than I use aerial hammer XD

 

[skellitorman]

a remember killing lambchops (Falco) with a ground hammer cuz i had a good setup. If you don't know who lambchops is u culd get a link to see this vid http://youtube.com/watch?v=HR50l256C2c although that is not me against him.

Also many ppl underestimate the uses of the ground hammer and Upsmash. a dash dance into a jc upsmash works very well. even if u dont hit with the strong part the weaker part can be lead into a combo( well mayb not a combo but maybe a b air). also it has a very decent sized hitbox, and is not as slow as ppl think. It hits all around u and he ducks right before doing the move so if like the person jumps and fairs u he might miss and u might hit. if you are good with the move it can work.

the ground hammer is alot less versatile and works only in few instances, but if u hav a perfect setup then it will work.

 

[Nashun]

Please explain this "setup" you use for ground hammer. The only real way you can use them is to punish laggy recoveries like falcon and sheik or after a forced wake-up.

 

[t!MmY]

Or mindgamez!

 

[Buttcrust]

The only time I can ever get it is WD backwards after a missed grab/dash attack. Once I hit someone trying to sweetspot the ledge.

 

[skellitorman]

wel first off i grab alot with kirby because he has a very good grab range (compared to some of his other moves) I almost always up throw depending on the situation. It is a good 10 percent added. Anyways lets say i hit the opponent and he techs.(not from a grab nesessarily, but mayb the fourth hit from the forward air or forward tilt or something) If he techs the way i run he might put up his shield, so ill grab. (i make my opponent hate my grab cuz i will constantly do it) If he thinks im going to grab him he will usually spot dodge. So right when i run up to him i press ForwardB, he spot dodges while i take out the hammer but his frames coming back he gets hit by the swing, and dies. It sounds tricky or hard but it works alot better than you think. (HOWEVER you have to know that he is going to spotdodge) They are also more likely to spotdodge if they are nearer to the edge, than in the middle of the stage, so keep that in mind. Most other situations i wuld probly use the upsmash since it is faster, and really deadly as well. A dashing jc upsmash works well, even though i see that most kirby players don't do it.

You just have to play kirby intelligently, and know your stuff. Mindgames is a must for kirby players IMO, and it works well.

 

[Deleted member]

all t!mmy has to do is this (at 0:14 seconds)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=664709775934102437&q=kirby+combo+video&hl=en

or this :D
(at 0:40 seconds or 1:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phVFKAxETlg

hooray!

 

[Pariah]

Use the ledgehop Bair, darnit!

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Please explain this "setup" you use for ground hammer. The only real way you can use them is to punish laggy recoveries like falcon and sheik or after a forced wake-up.

Every once in a while I manage to pull off a dthrow -> tech chase -> ground hammer

It's just a matter of guessing where they'll tech and spacing the hammer correctly. I've landed quite a few kills with it

 

[TheManaLord]

get lucky, kirbycide, kirbycide, kirbycide, u r winner!