Wario's Week 16 Matchup REDISCUSSION: MetaKnight

[DallasPhat]

FICTION lets TEAM SOMETIME!! You go MK and I'll go Wario .

 

[bassem6]

FICTION lets TEAM SOMETIME!! You go MK and I'll go Wario .

Lol dphat. You still haven't teamed with me :'(

 

[Padô]

NICE SOCIAL THREAD GUYS.


*caps ftl

 

[Limeee]

CP him to smashville

all it takes is 3 forbidden techniques to win

 

[ssbbFICTION]

FICTION lets TEAM SOMETIME!! You go MK and I'll go Wario .

That sounds epic. come to cali lol

 

[TheOgbot]

Hey guys, I legit want some help. My last time playing a really good MK was more of a reading match, and I got outread and ***** (seriously like 2 stocked both matches of the set)

What should I look out for and punish when I'm fighting an MK that reads better than I do? There's no way in hell I can win the reading game...

 

[ssbbFICTION]

If a player is reading you they are better

 

[bassem6]

Hey guys, I legit want some help. My last time playing a really good MK was more of a reading match, and I got outread and ***** (seriously like 2 stocked both matches of the set)

What should I look out for and punish when I'm fighting an MK that reads better than I do? There's no way in hell I can win the reading game...

Ok, if youre getting read a lot it means youre being too predictable. Back when I was a newer wario main, I would have a bad habit of jump>double jump> dairing too much and it would often result in me getting pivot grabbed and grab release *****. So what you need to do, is mix your game up.

A few key things to remember...

1) Wario has MANY ways he can approach. You can running shield and attempt to shield grab. You can try airdodging behind your opponent (higher risk but higher reward if they dont predict this). You can bike at them (do this sparingly).

You can run up and spotdodge in front of them to try and trick them into attacking your spotdodge so you can counter-attack. You can double jump dair. You can pull out your bike, break it and throw tires. You can DACUS. These are several options that you have so if you find yourself getting read a lot using one option, try a different one and see what works best against your opponent.

2) Something I always keep in mind while I'm fighting mk's is to ALWAYS ANTICIPATE THE TORNADO. If your constantly keeping an eye out for the tornado then you will be able to quickly react and either hit him out of it or safely get away in time without taking damage. My personal favorite thing to do is f-smash mk's out of their tornado. If you can consistently punish the mk, it will make them think twice before getting spammy with the nado.

3) You can punish OOS shuttle-loops with up-airs for a whopping 17% each time (assuming up-air is fresh).

4) If the mk is playing super campy then YOU DONT NEED TO APPROACH. Just wait it out. You build up your fart this way and chances are the mk will get impatient and nado/dash attack/sh fair at you. Then you can block and counter attack.

5) It is crucial that you land your farts as often as possible in this MU because thats one of the few things wario has on mk. Kill potential. So just wait for the perfect moment when you KNOW it will hit, then let em have it.

If a player is reading you they are better

lol fiction with the pro tip xD

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[o-Serin-o]

I went through two pages of this thread on a 40 PPP, lol'ed at M2K calling people ******s, and I have come to the conclusion of:


MK is not your worst matchup; D3 is.

Juss sayin.

 

[DMG]

nope

10nopes

 

[ssbbFICTION]

you are wrong officer man dude

 

[DMG]

Wario has CPs for Dedede

He has none for MK

Dang, that kinda sucks

 

[o-Serin-o]

What CP?

If Norfair is legal, then yeah, he does. But otherwise, no.

 

[DMG]

Brinstar
Lylat
PS2
Distant Planet
PTAD

 

[toobusytocare]

i feel like Frigate is pretty good vs D3 imo

the first part he has troubles air releasing you because the platform on the left hangs over the ledge and on the right if it moves while hes trying to release then it can mess him up, also the lack of a lesge to grab makes getting the damage in when you get him odd stage easier

and on the second part you can CG him lol

 

[leatherhead93]

Port town is legal at some tournies? >_>

 

[o-Serin-o]

Most D3's will ban Brinstar.

PS2 is almost never legal.
PTAD is almost never legal.
Lylat is better for us, imo.
Distant Planet is never legal.

 

[DMG]

Serin you would be surprised.

Very surprised. That's all I can say for now.

 

[Lord Chair]

PS2 is only legal in Germany.

And they never CP it, they CP Norfair no matter what character they (or you) play.

 

[slikvik]

D3 is harder. WC/SW have no good D3s

 

[ssbbFICTION]

@slikvik ddd is not harder ive played the best ddd's shudup

 

[CO18]

yea when we didnt know the mu rofl, ddd is def warios worst mu being a ddd/wario main now.

Its not even funny. Wario can win by timeout only if the d3s playing the mu correctly assuming theyre on relative same skill level

 

[ssbbFICTION]

DDD seriously isnt that much of a problem. Not anything close to what MK is

 

[slikvik]

yea when we didnt know the mu rofl, ddd is def warios worst mu being a ddd/wario main now.

Its not even funny. Wario can win by timeout only if the d3s playing the mu incorrectly assuming theyre on relative same skill level

What Co said. I also find it hilarious when warios claim this, but i find out later that Atomsk traveled to their region and 2-3 stocked their warios. Not naming any names. You guys know who you are

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Wow why don't you guys believe me. DDDs huge and fat and mk is tiny and deadly. i dont see how a tiny deadly version of ddd can possibly be easier

 

[bassem6]

Except the tiny deadly version doesnt have a guaranteed 18% or more from one grab or a guaranteed kill move from grab...Not to mention, he lives much longer than mk and can wall wario out with bairs all day...just saying.

I think they are both equally hard.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

landing a kill move with mk is way easier than grabbing wario with ddd idk why people think its so easy to grab wario

 

[bassem6]

landing a kill move with mk is way easier than grabbing wario with ddd idk why people think its so easy to grab wario

oh, I never said it was easy to grab wario. Dont get me wrong. LANDING a kill move with mk is easier. But actually KILLING with a kill move doesnt happen until wario has tons of %. Unless mk gets a stupid gimp or shuttle loop on wario in which case that would be a silly mistake on the wario's part.

 

[o-Serin-o]

It's actually pretty ****ing easy to grab Wario, **** up or not.

Fiction, when was the last time you played a good D3 that knew the matchup?

 

[TlocCPU]

You guys are too funny. Every board seems to think they go even with metaknight, it's sickening. That's why I quit the dedede boards lol.
Co18, you should come back and play Futile and Fiction again. Even knowing the matchup, you're still going to have a game 3 last hit set, I promise you that. The matchup isn't very far in our favor. I know the matchup EXTREMELY well having spent hours upon hours playing Dedede vs Wario with both Fiction and Futile who are two of my best friends even outside of smash. I'm confident enough to say that the matchup is 55:45 Dedede.
If you guys are having trouble, here's some of the tips I can give you. I'll write it out based on options.
1. The dedede is spamming bair: You need to watch a little bit more closely. Is he short hopping or his he full hopping? If he's short hopping then you can full hop double jump and down air him safely without getting hit. Afterward, you should retreat and continue your air camping.
If he's full hopping, this is one of your rare chances to get under him. Remember, there's no guaranteed hits here. It's about the players reading each other. If he full hop bairs you can go under him, if he reads it he's going to dair. Of course, if you read the dair and already know he's going to try it, you can use your superior mobility to either attempt to go around him for a fair/waft, or retreat again.
2. The dedede is waddle dee camping: Waddle dee camping sucks. I've never made use of it because it's so easily thwarted. Just get progressively closer until you're close enough to powershield it and dash in for a punish. Dedede has too much lag on this. Dedede can't even camp wario very well. Just be patient and the usual camping strategy is extremely easy to get around. I don't use this strategy.
3. The dedede is waiting for the shield grab: This is bite bait. I realize biting is risky which is why you need to throw in other things. Space aerials so that you can jump away after. The BEST position wario can be in in the dedede matchup is having him shield while you pressure him. That's exactly what you want.
4. Dedede is offstage: This is the money shot right here. If you get dedede off stage and you have a waft, you have about an 80% chance of killing him assuming he's at the right % for killing. Use your INCREDIBLE fair and run that fatass out of jumps! Once you do, grab the edge and force the up B. Free waft or clap if you don't have waft. Wario has a huge edge guarding advantage in this matchup because of his aerial mobility, abuse it.

Closing comments: I REALIZE THIS IS THE WRONG THREAD BUT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IT SO SORRY XD. It's slightly in dedede's favor because of his range, but you do have options to counter all of his. It's all about reading and reacting. And you essentially NEED at least one waft gimp at a somewhat low % for a good win. Even now, whenever I play fiction or futile it's always last hit no matter what.

And finally just a general tip, run away. Run away a lot. The whole matchup is running away. If you play it right, you should either time out the dedede(very rare) or win with about a 1-3 minutes left. Be PATIENT. Anybody can do it. Find a good dedede to practice with. It's not easy at first but

 

[TlocCPU]

It's actually pretty ****ing easy to grab Wario, **** up or not.

Fiction, when was the last time you played a good D3 that knew the matchup?

He plays me and Teba a TON. You on the other hand, have never played a wario so I don't know how you're getting your easy grabs

 

[o-Serin-o]

tl;dr

EDIT: ...Who told you that?


EDIT2: Playing you and Teba alot isn't necessarily matchup experience. It could be that he's just outplaying you, or otherwise.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[o-Serin-o]

He 1 of the 4 D3s on the WC.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

oh, I never said it was easy to grab wario. Dont get me wrong. LANDING a kill move with mk is easier. But actually KILLING with a kill move doesnt happen until wario has tons of %. Unless mk gets a stupid gimp or shuttle loop on wario in which case that would be a silly mistake on the wario's part.

lolwut

a kill move means it kills you

>_>

also you guys cant john out of me beating co18 twice, atomsk , and then lain

all without dropping a set a genesis last year and then just be like well

roffly poffly

i didnt know the matchup obviously so now when we havent played each other in forever imma say it doesnt count

seriously man up

-_-

 

[TlocCPU]

tl;dr

EDIT: ...Who told you that?


EDIT2: Playing you and Teba alot isn't necessarily matchup experience. It could be that he's just outplaying you, or otherwise.

Yes the only possible conclusion is that everything I said doesn't matter and there's no hope for anybody because whatever a matchup was defined as in 08 must stay forever we are all doomed.

This is why I left the online smash community. Go to a real tournament then come back with real experience.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Not necessarily.

Fsmash is a kill move. It doesn't necessarily mean that it kills you.


EDIT: CPU stop jumping to your stupid *** conclusions when someone tell you ONE thing they don't feel like reading. Leave then if you don't wanna hear one person's opinion.

Just because I can't attend tournaments doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

saying that you hit someone with a kill move means you kill them

you call it a kill move outside of a game context because its used for killing

get it right

 

[TlocCPU]

Fiction and Futile will always be the only 2 warios who know what they're talking about