TLMSheikant
Smash Master
The Olimar Matchup Rediscussion Thread
Even 50:50
Frame data for Olimar: Go here if you want to compare Olimar's frame data with TL's.
Jab
First hit on: 4
Second hit on: 13
Ends on: 29
Held Jab
First hit: 4
Second hit: 13
Third hit: 21
Ends on: 35
Dash Attack
First hit on: 8
Second hit on: 16
Ends on: 45
(Ends on 34 if the attack misses)
Forward Tilt
Hits on: 9
Ends on: 37
Down Tilt
Hits on: 6
Ends on: 29
Up Tilt
First hit on: 6
Second hit on: 12
Third hit on: 18
Fourth hit on: 24
Fifth hit on: 30
Sixth hit on: 36
Seventh hit on: 42
Eighth hit on: 48
Ends on: 72
(Ends on 39 if the attack misses)
Forward Smash
Hits on: 11
Pikmin's hitbox lasts till: 47
Ends on: 39
Can charge until: 68
Up Smash
Hits on: 8
Endson: 32
Can charge until: 68
Down Smash
Hits on: 10
Ends on: 38
Can charge until: 68
Neutral Air
First hit on: 7
Second hit on: 14
Third hit on: 21
Fourth hit on: 28
Fifth hit on: 35
Sixth hit on: 42
Landing Lag: 16
Ends on: 66
(Ends on 41 if the attack misses)
Forward Air
Hits on: 7
Ends on: 42
Landing Lag: 15
Back Air
Hits on: 10
Ends on: 48
Landing Lag: 15
Up Air (Red/Blue/Purple)
First hit on: 8
Second hit on: 15
Third hit on: 22
Fourth hit on: 29
Fifth hit on: 36
Sixth hit on: 43
Seventh hit on: 50
Landing Lag: 30
Ends on: 70
(Ends on 34 if attack misses)
Up Air (Yellow/White)
First hit on: 8
Second hit on: 14
Third hit on: 20
Fourth hit on: 26
Fifth hit on: 32
Sixth hit on: 38
Seventh hit on: 44
Landing Lag: 30
Ends on: 64
(Ends on 34 if attack misses)
Down Air
Hits on: 9
Hitbox Ends on: 16
Ends on: 51
Landing Lag 30
Grab
Grabs on: 11
Hit box ends on: 25
Ends on: 29
Pummel
Hits on: 10
Forward Throw
Hits on: 4
Ends on: 31
Back Throw
Hits on: 7
Ends on: 35
Down Throw
Hits on: 15
Ends on: 35
Up Throw
Hits on: 27
Ends on: 41
Neutral B
Plucks Pikmin on: 3
Ends on: 9
(Lasts until 13 on cave terrain)
Side B
Hits on: 9
Ends on: 25
-Pikmin stays latched for 260 frames after latched, decreasing by one frame for each percentage of damage on the opponent, with a minimum of 60 frames. The pikmin deals a latch hit every 30 frames.
Down B
Super Armor starts on: 2
Super Armor lasts through: 16
Ends on: 20
UpB
Hits on: 12
Ends on: 70
(If used in the air, Olimar will flip upside down after 60 frames. After this there are 32 frames of landing lag the next time he hits the ground.)
Spotdodge
Invincibility begins on: 3
Invincibility Lasts through: 20
Ends on: 25
Forward Roll
Invincibility begins on: 3
Invincibility lasts through: 19
Ends on: 32
Backwards Roll
Invincibility begins on: 4
Invincibility lasts through: 19
Ends on: 32
Air Dodge
Invincibility begins on: 2
Invincibility lasts through: 30
Ends on: 39
Get Up
Invincibility begins on: 1
Invincibility lasts through: 22
Ends on: 29
Get Up Attack
First hit on: 15
Second hit on: 25
Invincibility begins on: 1
Invincibility lasts through: 29
Ends on: 55
Get Up Roll (Forward)
Invincibility begins on: 1
Invincibility lasts through: 22
Ends on: 35
Get Up Roll (Bakwards)
Invincibility begins on: 1
Invincibility lasts through: 23
Ends on: 35
Ledge Attack
Hits on: 17
Ends on: 55
Slow Ledge Attack
Hits on: 39
Ends on: 69
Jump
In air on: 7
Landing Lag: 2
Best Stage to fight Olimar on:
Frigate Orpheon
Other good stages to fight Olimar on:
-Jungle Japes
-Lylat Cruise
-Yoshi's Island
-Rainbow Cruise
Worst Stage to fight Olimar on:
Luigi's Mansion
Other stages you should avoid:
-Pirate Ship (if legal)
-Final Destination
Summary:
Olimar is a very campy character with a lot of powerful tools to camp and keep the camping going. Olimar with his pikmin game shuts down Toon Link's camp game almost completely if not completely. His pikmin make it almost impossible to use bombs effectively in the matchup since if you have a pikmin latched onto you and you throw the bomb it will explode in your face and cause damage to yourself. His pikmin also block boomerang and arrows. Because of this, Toon Link has to play aggresive and get through Olimar's spam. Neutral Air breaks through pikmin and will be used the most in this matchup to approach usually followed up by an arrow cancel. Beware as his purple pikmin wont be killed by nair.
His pivot grab has low cooldown and a lot of range so be on the lookout for it while approaching. His blue pikmin give him the most range while grabbing. His white pikmin have the most damage output with side b but are weak at everything else. His red pikmin have a lot of knockback and are generally used for finishing aerials and KO moves. His yellow pikmin have low knockback and electric hitlag with multihit moves such as upair allowing for more combos. His purple pikmin hit hard and do a lot of damage and are generally used to KO with uthrow or as a proyectile with side b. (they dont latch and do damage instead) Everytime you are grabbed expect to be combo'd a lot :/. They can follow up their down throw with an upsmash and if you dont DI the upsmash to the side they can combo you with aerials too if you arent careful.
Olimar's biggest weakness is his recovery. So whenever you have the opportunity, go for the gimp. Zair to dash attack at the edge of the stage works wonders for this. Nair and fair is also a good offstage edgeguard. Beware of his whistle though, it has super armor frames and good olis use it to avoid gimps. If you get Olimar very far offstage, just edgehog and prepare to press L/R exactly when the olimar uses upB (like in melee) that way you dont get hit by the upB and risk being stagespiked and you gimp Olimar at the same time. If Olimar is close enough to you while trying to recover, he can upair, nair or fair to get you off the ledge and then upB to get back safely so be careful of that too.
Back air, Neutral air, Zair, jab, Boomerangs and arrow cancels are your most effective tools in this matchup. The best stages to fight Olimar is generally stages where you can abuse his recovery problem easier and small stages without a lot of space to close the gap quickly. You will want to avoid stages like norfair and pirate ship where there are lots of ledges/water to allow Olimar to recover. Good stages to fight Olimar on are Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes and Battlefield. (because of its small size)
Olimar also kills Toon Link a lot easier than Toon Link can kill him which is the biggest problem in the matchup for Toon Link aside from having to approach and being badly outcamped.
Moves to watch out for:
Side B, UpSmash, Grab, Pivot Grab, Forward Smash, Down Smash, Neutral Air, Up Air, Forward Air, Back Throw, Upthrow, Down throw.
Moves that are very useful in this matchup:
Jab, Neutral Air, Zair, Back air, Boomerang, Arrow Cancels. Dont forget to mix it up.
TL;DR- Do not camp olimar, dont use bombs, beware of pivot grabs while approaching, DI his throw combos and gimp him. Hyro: Nair to arrow cancel .
Even 50:50
Frame data for Olimar: Go here if you want to compare Olimar's frame data with TL's.
Jab
First hit on: 4
Second hit on: 13
Ends on: 29
Held Jab
First hit: 4
Second hit: 13
Third hit: 21
Ends on: 35
Dash Attack
First hit on: 8
Second hit on: 16
Ends on: 45
(Ends on 34 if the attack misses)
Forward Tilt
Hits on: 9
Ends on: 37
Down Tilt
Hits on: 6
Ends on: 29
Up Tilt
First hit on: 6
Second hit on: 12
Third hit on: 18
Fourth hit on: 24
Fifth hit on: 30
Sixth hit on: 36
Seventh hit on: 42
Eighth hit on: 48
Ends on: 72
(Ends on 39 if the attack misses)
Forward Smash
Hits on: 11
Pikmin's hitbox lasts till: 47
Ends on: 39
Can charge until: 68
Up Smash
Hits on: 8
Endson: 32
Can charge until: 68
Down Smash
Hits on: 10
Ends on: 38
Can charge until: 68
Neutral Air
First hit on: 7
Second hit on: 14
Third hit on: 21
Fourth hit on: 28
Fifth hit on: 35
Sixth hit on: 42
Landing Lag: 16
Ends on: 66
(Ends on 41 if the attack misses)
Forward Air
Hits on: 7
Ends on: 42
Landing Lag: 15
Back Air
Hits on: 10
Ends on: 48
Landing Lag: 15
Up Air (Red/Blue/Purple)
First hit on: 8
Second hit on: 15
Third hit on: 22
Fourth hit on: 29
Fifth hit on: 36
Sixth hit on: 43
Seventh hit on: 50
Landing Lag: 30
Ends on: 70
(Ends on 34 if attack misses)
Up Air (Yellow/White)
First hit on: 8
Second hit on: 14
Third hit on: 20
Fourth hit on: 26
Fifth hit on: 32
Sixth hit on: 38
Seventh hit on: 44
Landing Lag: 30
Ends on: 64
(Ends on 34 if attack misses)
Down Air
Hits on: 9
Hitbox Ends on: 16
Ends on: 51
Landing Lag 30
Grab
Grabs on: 11
Hit box ends on: 25
Ends on: 29
Pummel
Hits on: 10
Forward Throw
Hits on: 4
Ends on: 31
Back Throw
Hits on: 7
Ends on: 35
Down Throw
Hits on: 15
Ends on: 35
Up Throw
Hits on: 27
Ends on: 41
Neutral B
Plucks Pikmin on: 3
Ends on: 9
(Lasts until 13 on cave terrain)
Side B
Hits on: 9
Ends on: 25
-Pikmin stays latched for 260 frames after latched, decreasing by one frame for each percentage of damage on the opponent, with a minimum of 60 frames. The pikmin deals a latch hit every 30 frames.
Down B
Super Armor starts on: 2
Super Armor lasts through: 16
Ends on: 20
UpB
Hits on: 12
Ends on: 70
(If used in the air, Olimar will flip upside down after 60 frames. After this there are 32 frames of landing lag the next time he hits the ground.)
Spotdodge
Invincibility begins on: 3
Invincibility Lasts through: 20
Ends on: 25
Forward Roll
Invincibility begins on: 3
Invincibility lasts through: 19
Ends on: 32
Backwards Roll
Invincibility begins on: 4
Invincibility lasts through: 19
Ends on: 32
Air Dodge
Invincibility begins on: 2
Invincibility lasts through: 30
Ends on: 39
Get Up
Invincibility begins on: 1
Invincibility lasts through: 22
Ends on: 29
Get Up Attack
First hit on: 15
Second hit on: 25
Invincibility begins on: 1
Invincibility lasts through: 29
Ends on: 55
Get Up Roll (Forward)
Invincibility begins on: 1
Invincibility lasts through: 22
Ends on: 35
Get Up Roll (Bakwards)
Invincibility begins on: 1
Invincibility lasts through: 23
Ends on: 35
Ledge Attack
Hits on: 17
Ends on: 55
Slow Ledge Attack
Hits on: 39
Ends on: 69
Jump
In air on: 7
Landing Lag: 2
Best Stage to fight Olimar on:
Frigate Orpheon
Other good stages to fight Olimar on:
-Jungle Japes
-Lylat Cruise
-Yoshi's Island
-Rainbow Cruise
Worst Stage to fight Olimar on:
Luigi's Mansion
Other stages you should avoid:
-Pirate Ship (if legal)
-Final Destination
Summary:
Olimar is a very campy character with a lot of powerful tools to camp and keep the camping going. Olimar with his pikmin game shuts down Toon Link's camp game almost completely if not completely. His pikmin make it almost impossible to use bombs effectively in the matchup since if you have a pikmin latched onto you and you throw the bomb it will explode in your face and cause damage to yourself. His pikmin also block boomerang and arrows. Because of this, Toon Link has to play aggresive and get through Olimar's spam. Neutral Air breaks through pikmin and will be used the most in this matchup to approach usually followed up by an arrow cancel. Beware as his purple pikmin wont be killed by nair.
His pivot grab has low cooldown and a lot of range so be on the lookout for it while approaching. His blue pikmin give him the most range while grabbing. His white pikmin have the most damage output with side b but are weak at everything else. His red pikmin have a lot of knockback and are generally used for finishing aerials and KO moves. His yellow pikmin have low knockback and electric hitlag with multihit moves such as upair allowing for more combos. His purple pikmin hit hard and do a lot of damage and are generally used to KO with uthrow or as a proyectile with side b. (they dont latch and do damage instead) Everytime you are grabbed expect to be combo'd a lot :/. They can follow up their down throw with an upsmash and if you dont DI the upsmash to the side they can combo you with aerials too if you arent careful.
Olimar's biggest weakness is his recovery. So whenever you have the opportunity, go for the gimp. Zair to dash attack at the edge of the stage works wonders for this. Nair and fair is also a good offstage edgeguard. Beware of his whistle though, it has super armor frames and good olis use it to avoid gimps. If you get Olimar very far offstage, just edgehog and prepare to press L/R exactly when the olimar uses upB (like in melee) that way you dont get hit by the upB and risk being stagespiked and you gimp Olimar at the same time. If Olimar is close enough to you while trying to recover, he can upair, nair or fair to get you off the ledge and then upB to get back safely so be careful of that too.
Back air, Neutral air, Zair, jab, Boomerangs and arrow cancels are your most effective tools in this matchup. The best stages to fight Olimar is generally stages where you can abuse his recovery problem easier and small stages without a lot of space to close the gap quickly. You will want to avoid stages like norfair and pirate ship where there are lots of ledges/water to allow Olimar to recover. Good stages to fight Olimar on are Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes and Battlefield. (because of its small size)
Olimar also kills Toon Link a lot easier than Toon Link can kill him which is the biggest problem in the matchup for Toon Link aside from having to approach and being badly outcamped.
Moves to watch out for:
Side B, UpSmash, Grab, Pivot Grab, Forward Smash, Down Smash, Neutral Air, Up Air, Forward Air, Back Throw, Upthrow, Down throw.
Moves that are very useful in this matchup:
Jab, Neutral Air, Zair, Back air, Boomerang, Arrow Cancels. Dont forget to mix it up.
TL;DR- Do not camp olimar, dont use bombs, beware of pivot grabs while approaching, DI his throw combos and gimp him. Hyro: Nair to arrow cancel .