The Sonic Glitch/Tech/Non-obvious move list & Gimp Guide *updated 2/16*

[Umby]

I prefer DAC. It allows me to pull them off after auto canceled aerials/short hops. The instant distance you cover without having to dash is just appealing to me. I also put Attack on my R button and the timing becomes easy, but I suppose that's just me.

 

[darkNES386]

Yeh, sorry darkNES I'd be happy to change that, but I have no idea how the DAC is so much better than the hyphen smash. Plus the timing was always a pain in the *** for me to get down.

^This coming soon

 

[TwinkleToes]

^This coming soon

Quiet you.

I didn't change it cuz as I explained I have no idea how DAC is better than hyphen.

 

[Kinzer]

It's pretty easy to do, you get the same if not more distance, and you can do it from a standing position.

However a hyphen smash is nice when you don't want to overspace, but in that case there were probably better ways to do whatever.

 

[JayBee]

it has more distance, but i honestly never do it. its too hard for me to do it consistantly, but maybe i haven't trained enought with it. that, and im so focused on DDP and other things. we need to se a visual on the distances that hypen and DAC smashes have to be sure its really worth it. because sonic doen't really need it like snake does IMO

 

[~TBS~]

it has more distance, but i honestly never do it. its too hard for me to do it consistantly, but maybe i haven't trained enought with it. that, and im so focused on DDP and other things. we need to se a visual on the distances that hypen and DAC smashes have to be sure its really worth it. because sonic doen't really need it like snake does IMO

Its personal preference, right? Well, I mix it up. And DDP options are pretty cool, but sometimes hard on your hands. Try DDPing into a DACUS. No, really. This is a pretty cool combination here. It's nonobvious IMO, i caught some people into some nasty stuff with this. No joke.

 

[darkNES386]

I'm really bad at testing guys... I just don't have the patience. Here's what I can share right now (clip from last week, don't have the wii right now). This just shows the range difference FROM A STAND still. It's useless when Sonic is already in his run animation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R19-QKSt9Mo

The real question is:
Is Sonic running speed >,=,< DAC Usmash?

yes: Then it may be more worth learning.
no: It leaves you with only one forced option whereas if you are running at anytime you can abort with pretty much change up your approach or abort.

Who cares?: I'm sure everyone remembers how excited we first got about the delayed dash attack for slippy foxtrot characters like Sonic. Anyways, DDA>DAC = cool change of pace/timing.

 

[Umby]

I'm really bad at testing guys... I just don't have the patience. Here's what I can share right now (clip from last week, don't have the wii right now). This just shows the range difference FROM A STAND still. It's useless when Sonic is already in his run animation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R19-QKSt9Mo

The real question is:
Is Sonic running speed >,=,< DAC Usmash?

yes: Then it may be more worth learning.
no: It leaves you with only one forced option whereas if you are running at anytime you can abort with pretty much change up your approach or abort.

Who cares?: I'm sure everyone remembers how excited we first got about the delayed dash attack for slippy foxtrot characters like Sonic. Anyways, DDA>DAC = cool change of pace/timing.

Well I responded on the video, but just to reiterate, the distance required to get maximum distance of a hyphen smash makes DACUS a better choice in general, especially considering that once you dash, you're having to close distance between your opponent, and in doing so, can get hurt during your dash or have the whole hyphen smash miss, making it generally only viable on places like Final D. or Battlefield. With DACUS, you have instant distance, so that makes it viable while standing or out of a dash. Also, because of the instant start up, you could possibly follow up with it after the IASA frames of certain moves.

 

[darkNES386]

Alright so here's the deal:

Boost-smash is somewhat dependent on the characters dash attack. That's why Snake and Sonic have some of the best boost-smashes. Their dash attacks really launch them.

Sonic however has the fastest run in the game which made the difference almost impossible to see until now.....

All further discussion is based off random frame data tests I've performed, but numbers honestly won't mean much due to the difficulty of matching up the two moves.

1) Instant Dash Attacking initial acceleration is faster than the dash start (initial few frames of running)

2) However, Dash Attacks start fast and end slow... where as Sonic starts to really move after those first few frames

Ultimately, there's about a 1 frame difference either way, but it is very difficult to reproduce a usmash at just the right moment to where you can actually compare the two moves:
-at a closer start time the boost-smash appears faster (gets to say the second arrow of FD in a frame less)
-at a later time upon the apex of the attack the regular hyphen smash is actually further along

So the two are slightly different, but in the scheme of things it would seem that you're most likely better off sticking with the hyphen smash if:
a) You find the boost-smashing with sonic impossible
b) You want about .2 more seconds of reaction time lulz to abort it, and possibly shield.

The bottom line is that the apex position starts further from your opponent for the boost-smash.
This implies that boost-smashing may still be worth because of the different timing. Honestly though, when those invincy frames occur is hard enough as it is to accurately time with a moving usmash. Much more reasonable with standing usmash (Espy obviously had it down decently against Sethlon's falco to interrupt illusion).

So yeah, I think this is going to be my gameplan: Never use boost-smash... it's not worth messing up the timing. Just to change the location of Sonic's apex... especially considering the timing for it requires you start it slightly sooner than a hyphen smash

 

[infomon]

Very interesting work, dNES. Thanx!

 

[Umby]

I still disagree on your theory on the timing's utility, DNes. Mainly because I use Attack on my R button, and it makes the timing easier for me, but also because the instant start up can be used out of more situations and is less likely to be seen than a dash. For example, I often use an empty shorthop to spawn a reaction out of my opponent, but if he just wants to sit there or sidestep or w/e, I can FF and then boost smash (or dash attack, of course). Tbh, generally anything out of which you can follow up a with dash attack, you could probably follow up with boost smash in a similar situation, like out of a spring -> dair (after spring Knockback).

That said, I'd suppose the main vantage issue is where the invincibility frames end up.

 

[Kinzer]

I dunno about DACUS being capable of replacing DA, because DA feels faster on start-up and safer, but everything else you said seems fine Umby.

Hell I'll be honest, I actually got under a MK's Dair with DA, LOL shrinked hurtbox.

 

[Camalange]

In other news, I found something awesome for Sonic. I'm waiting for access to my friend's capture card so I can make a video on it.

Basically, it's like a second glide toss, but you can do it out of a full run. It's a tech that every character can do, but Link mains take advantage of the most (from what I see). Sonic's works differently than any other characters that I've tested it with, and it's sexy.

I believe it's called something like jump canceled item toss. Right before throwing an item, you just jump, then cancel the jump with the toss. It puts the character in standing position and reduces the ending lag (similar to jump canceled grabs in Melee). You can jump cancel toss in all in all directions (up-down-forward-backward)

Most characters just stop in place, or slide slightly. Sonic slides just as far as his glide toss! If spaced correctly, you can do the following...(with these examples, I am referring to bananas. I figured this would be the most common item used)

-Jump Canceled Item Toss [Forward]
You basically can get any attack. Best options are probably grab or Fsmash.

-[Down]
This looks the sexiest. The timing/spacing is a bit tricky, but it's nice. You slide and throw down as you pass the enemy (so you throw the item down as you slide so it hits the opponent) IMMEDIATLY after inputting the throw, pivot grab. The banana will hit the enemy, and got knocked into Sonic's pivot grab.

I'm sure there are more possibilities, these are just the ones I noticed first.

I really want to get videos of this up soon. I posted this in the Social thread too.

 

[Lawz.]

In other news, I found something awesome for Sonic. I'm waiting for access to my friend's capture card so I can make a video on it.

Basically, it's like a second glide toss, but you can do it out of a full run. It's a tech that every character can do, but Link mains take advantage of the most (from what I see). Sonic's works differently than any other characters that I've tested it with, and it's sexy.

I believe it's called something like jump canceled item toss. Right before throwing an item, you just jump, then cancel the jump with the toss. It puts the character in standing position and reduces the ending lag (similar to jump canceled grabs in Melee). You can jump cancel toss in all in all directions (up-down-forward-backward)

Most characters just stop in place, or slide slightly. Sonic slides just as far as his glide toss! If spaced correctly, you can do the following...(with these examples, I am referring to bananas. I figured this would be the most common item used)

-Jump Canceled Item Toss [Forward]
You basically can get any attack. Best options are probably grab or Fsmash.

-[Down]
This looks the sexiest. The timing/spacing is a bit tricky, but it's nice. You slide and throw down as you pass the enemy (so you throw the item down as you slide so it hits the opponent) IMMEDIATLY after inputting the throw, pivot grab. The banana will hit the enemy, and got knocked into Sonic's pivot grab.

I'm sure there are more possibilities, these are just the ones I noticed first.

I really want to get videos of this up soon. I posted this in the Social thread too.

the AT is called JCT (jump cancelled throw). i would love to see what you guys will do with this.

 

[Camalange]

the AT is called JCT (jump cancelled throw). i would love to see what you guys will do with this.

Ah, well thanks for clearing that bit up. By any chance do you know who found this first? Credit should go to them, and maybe partial to me for applying it to Sonic but...I'd rather have credit go to the person who found it first, regardless of which character (since this works for all characters)

Although Kinzer said it should be called the Camaldash XD
lame

Now maybe the Camalaunch XD

EDIT:

JCT (jump canceled throw) actually puts Sonic into a stand still position, but Sonic's ridiculous ground speed causes him to continue sliding, unlike the rest of the cast. Now, it doesn't go AS FAR as the glide toss, but it comes very close.

The thing I REALLY like about Sonic's JCT is this...after some experimenting, Sonic can actually repeatedly JCT an item and catch it! If you JCT an item (banana let's just say) forward, Sonic will slide at the SAME SPEED the banana is being thrown at, and Sonic can recatch it and do it again. It's very interesting.

I wish I had my own capture card so I could get all of this up this weekend :/

 

[JayBee]

wow, you guys are amazing. i just found a new toy to play with. i have a whole mess of things i wann try. i'll have something in the lab sometime this week concerning this.

 

[Umby]

I dunno about DACUS being capable of replacing DA, because DA feels faster on start-up and safer, but everything else you said seems fine Umby.

Hell I'll be honest, I actually got under a MK's Dair with DA, LOL shrinked hurtbox.

I didn't mean it in a sense of DACUS replacing DA, but just the simple fact that both could be viable follow ups in similar situations.

 

[PoweredVolt]

So I was screwing around with Sonic in training mode and found something out. Or maybe it's discovered, not sure, but it's interesting nonetheless.

You can literally cancel Homing Attack into a jump. What I did was jump > b > jump extremely fast. I know it read the Homing Attack because I heard the noise.

I don't know if this is useful in any way, but it's neat.

 

[Kinzer]

If that holds true, great! Another "AT" where we can make a "swee" sound. I mean we already had SDSC, at least this one will just prevent us from using a bad move all-together.

 

[TwinkleToes]

:X

Does anything happen? Like, anything that would make this worthwhile to do?

 

[Kinzer]

It's Homing Attack (or is at least associated with it).

You figure it out. :X

 

[Tesh]

Are you certain it was homing attack? You said you are certain because of the startup sound, but thats pretty similar to the others without that launch sound isn't it? Are you sure you didn't cancel Side B with a jump? Sort of like a failed spinshot? It would sound exactly like that and if you did it right after your first jump, you would briefly see sonic in ball form rising without moving left or right.

 

[Camalange]

I did some testing, you definitley can't jump cancel HA...lol

You probably did what Tesh said. You hit side B and canceled that with a jump (not a spinshot, but just a jump canceled spindash in the air) giving you the spin noise, but having Sonic jump.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Epic fail :o

I'm kidding man, thanks for trying though.

 

[Jim Morrison]

You know.
I never realized how useful aerial side-B jump is. Sonic is terrible at accelerating/slowing down in the air, but this just cancels your aerial momentum at once. It also makes a swee sound. I'm going to apply this somehow, somewhere.

 

[Kinzer]

I hope you'll have your second jump then, or at worst be somewhere near the ledge.

I'm starting to wonder if I should reverse Side-B momentum cancel.

That extra distance really does make a difference. :/

But if I do that I'll have my back facing towards my enemy/stage, I feel really limited in that sense, not to mention I lose the ability to use HA to stall if I do that.

...Hell, would I just kill myself because I accidentally tried to momentum cancel the other way and drift into the blastzone?

 

[aeghrur]

Hence why you DI to the corner and ASC momentum cancel.
Plain, simple, and very good.

 

[Kinzer]

Hey.

I don't see you coming up with new ideas on how to not die (at that moment). :E

 

[Jim Morrison]

Meh, after some testing this isn't useful for offensive maneouvres because you can't attack immedeatly after the jump :/

It might work for momentum cancelling, but it'd be stupid to not just realize side-B, fly back and still have your 2nd jump.

 

[highfive]

This may just be noob speak, but has anyone else noticed that with Sonic, if you roll dodge near the edge of the stage, then walk off it automatically makes an instant edgehog? Without pressing anything?

 

[chaoechidna]

highfive, if that's so, that's amazing. I always have a little trouble with instant edge grab. Ill give this a go!

 

[highfive]

See if it works, I managed to gimp my brother's recovery several times, but it may just be the timing of the jump too.
It seems that a subtle movement of the control stick is needed to edgehog more easily, but I find that it's still possible to go berserk on the control stick and still manage an instant edgehog.

 

[YoshiIslander77z]

idk if i found sumthin or not, can u shield during ur dash attack animation like half way through it?, if not i think if found sumthing, i have it one a replay if u want it

 

[Kupo Rose]

idk if i found sumthin or not, can u shield during ur dash attack animation like half way through it, if not i think if found sumthing, i have it one a replay if u want it

What you mean like this? 0:04 - 0:09 (Ignore the rest of the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2dKQvq-Vz4

 

[YoshiIslander77z]

no i mean his actual dash attack not his b moves

 

[Umby]

This may just be noob speak, but has anyone else noticed that with Sonic, if you roll dodge near the edge of the stage, then walk off it automatically makes an instant edgehog? Without pressing anything?

It's not an "instant" edgehog per say. It's a regular hug. Normally when Sonic runs to the edge, the momentum carries him too far to hug regularly. This is why we use instant edgehogging. However, just walking off allows Sonic to hug the ledge normally.

idk if i found sumthin or not, can u shield during ur dash attack animation like half way through it?, if not i think if found sumthing, i have it one a replay if u want it

The best I can assume is that your shield was buffered near the end of the attack, but you'd have to show the replay so we can see what's actually going on.

 

[Espy Rose]

He sent me the replay, and I managed to examine what is was that he did.

Hope you didn't hold your breath. It was just the sideB shield cancel.

 

[Umby]

He sent me the replay, and I managed to examine what is was that he did.

Hope you didn't hold your breath. It was just the sideB shield cancel.

That warrants a few "lol"s.

 

[Kupo Rose]

...Hope you didn't hold your breath. It was just the sideB shield cancel.

...and I showed him a vid O_o so much for "no B moves" I probably overdone it.

 

[drag0nfeather]

"Dash-cancelling" an up-smash is the same as hyphen-smashing. Why? Because hitting the C-stick and hitting Z (or even A, uncommonly known) causes you to charge a smash. If I dashed and hit up on the C-stick, that's hyphen-smashing. If I dashed, hit up on the C-stick and Z or A simultaneously, that's still hyphen-smashing, albeit charged/charging the smash. If I dashed, smashed up on teh control stick and hit the A button, that's still a hyphen-smash (and I just checked that it's possible to do it, although not easily). Dang all these names, man. I think it should just be called a dash-cancelled up-smash, not hyphen-smashing. I can't even remember if that's the only application of hyphen-smashing.

Also, small rant: the stutter-step smash (smash backward on the control stick and C-stick in the opposite direction) gets the same amount of distance as smashing FORWARD if you time it properly. But, I'd rather move in the right direction than potentially move backward unintentionally due to similar bad timing.