Super Awesome Wario Advanced Technique and Combo Thread! Defensive Tire Play!!!

[TheReflexWonder]

It's not that simple--It's a very short part of one's initial dash. Otherwise, Captain Falcon's F-Smash would be awesome.

 

[Kuro~]

It's not that simple--It's a very short part of one's initial dash. Otherwise, Captain Falcon's F-Smash would be awesome.

huh? i think we're misunderstanding eachother

 

[Pwneroni]

Nah I get what you're both saying. You add the "initial dash animation" frames (merely the act of starting to run) to the Fsmash. The initial dash gives you a suuuuper small boost (about 1/3 of a wavedash approx) but still it is a boost nonetheless. You can see in zxz's video he provided, in the race it makes a difference.

 

[xzx]

* xzx =P

Also, shouldn't you add Wario's stutter stepping in the OP? xP

 

[Pwneroni]

Haha my bad xD yeah I'll add that in when I have some time, I have a good example in a video from November '10. Thanks for your help xzx, I greatly appreciate it

 

[xzx]

A big thanks to you too! n_n This is the best thread for a Wario mainer to be in!

 

[B.Mack]

this is the greatest thread in the Wario boards. Great job again Pwneroni. good dedication.

 

[Pwneroni]

Heh thanks it's a blast makin' it for y'all too!

 

[Geerz]

footstooling is free combos off of the lava on brin, not sure if someone brought that up but just sayin'

 

[Kira-]

This guide is actually amazing.

 

[Pwneroni]

Thanks, I worked hard on it

Okay so jeez, last night I had a small smashfest with Viviff T. Great present. Omfg..... he is so **** I can hardly believe it. It felt like I couldn't do **** except when I had some tires on the field (specifically in my hand). Honestly I feel that tires give Wario a bit of room to work in the matchup. Be careful though, MK can use tires really effectively as well (which Viviff is learning to do, smart player after all #1 in Oregon) or just throw out a mach tornado to destroy any tires you have bouncing around. If Wario can keep the tires safe, they can really be a huge asset against MK.

I recently said that tires are way radical if used defensively, and yesterday I made some awesome improvements to the tire defense game. Well actually I had an epiphany last thursday in math class about it, but didn't have the opportunity to try it out till last night. 5 words: Glide Toss Out of Shield. This is literally the filthiest and most badass way to punish on the planet Earth.

MK Dsmashes your shield? Glide toss oos to Fsmash.

Snake Ftilts your shield? Glide toss oos to Fsmash.

Can you actually land a fart out of a Dthrow glide toss? I think you may be able to, but I've never actually tried it out. OOOOOmfg, that would be the BEST PUNISH EVER!!! MK Dsmashes your shield when he is at 69%. He thinks he's got the magic going. Glide toss oos to 99.99999999999999 repeating % charged fart UTTER DESTRUCTION!

 

[Pwneroni]

Bump for Defensive Tire section started, anyone have contributions they would like to share? It is going to be a full guide on breaking the bike, defensive tires and what to do when your opponent has your tires. Input would be appreciated, this will be a work in progress over the next week or two

 

[Labernash]

If the other guy gets the tire, should I just eat them, or takee the risk and get them back?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If the other guy gets the tire, should I just eat them, or takee the risk and get them back?

Certain characters can make better use of them than others--Don't try too hard to interact with items that, say, Zero Suit Samus has claim over. Don't forget that you can make a tire disappear by shielding it, too. In many cases, that's safer than using Bite.

Otherwise, if it's not going to lead into something nasty, it's better to try and catch it yourself. At worst, you just take 10% for it, and at best, you have a nice tool at your disposal. It gets easier with practice, too, of course.

 

[kismet2]

this isn't exactly defensive or anything but what about ricocheting your tire under the ledges of a stage for edgeguarding? like for example, if you throw it at a right angle underneath the ledge it'll go straight down. it'll probably help against characters you'd rather not chase all the way at the bottom(mk =D)

 

[TheReflexWonder]

this isn't exactly defensive or anything but what about ricocheting your tire under the ledges of a stage for edgeguarding? like for example, if you throw it at a right angle underneath the ledge it'll go straight down. it'll probably help against characters you'd rather not chase all the way at the bottom(mk =D)

I didn't think about that, but that makes perfect sense. I wonder if we could do it to screw over vertical recovery moves like Marth's Up-B on Smashville or Battlefield. That's a really good tip.

I'll be sure to get a KO on you as a result of that the next time we play.

 

[kismet2]

I didn't think about that, but that makes perfect sense. I wonder if we could do it to screw over vertical recovery moves like Marth's Up-B on Smashville or Battlefield. That's a really good tip.

I'll be sure to get a KO on you as a result of that the next time we play.

NOOOOO XD but that would be amazing even if you did pull it off on me haha btw you HAVE to score a gimp this way in teams this weekend

 

[Pwneroni]

WOW kismet that is such an awesome idea! I never thought of that haha, though it would probably be a kick-*** flashy/mindgame combo vid clip rather than happen in a serious tournament match. Tires are just toooo good to throw away ;P innovation is what I like to see, good stuff!

 

[Geerz]

tires are really good against DDD's jumps recovery, nair + tire throw is 2 jumps right there. I think that Tires will make the ddd MU a looooot easier, since he can't safely CG us across stage if there is a bouncing tire in the way

 

[kismet2]

thanks! true, tires are too good to throw away XD

also luis, mcdonalds is having a 2 for $2.50 chicken mcbiscuit deal. as if they didn't win over black people already... 0_o

 

[Geerz]

I was just watching waft's combo videos and I realized that whenever he used a tire on his opponents I think it forced a get-up. If it does, then tires are gonna be soooo broken

 

[kismet2]

maybe a falling uair that'll allow you to catch the tire? then depending on the opponent maybe you can footstool them and then immediately throw the tire down to lock them then you can probably do a nair combo for percent or maybe a waft if you need to get rid of it.

also brb i'm going to watch this combo video >_>

EDIT: it was pretty awesome and learned a few things too

 

[Geerz]

wah wah waft 3. He did it to a snake and DK. First one happens around 1:15 second happens around 1:40. He does bite -> tire throw which I think would make the DDD MU soooo much easier, since DDD is giant and easy to bite

 

[Pwneroni]

What combo video is this? I love combo vids, especially Wario ones the Waft-OLi series are my favorites! Along with mine of course, heh heh I'm hella proud of that one.

And yes, both tires AND the bike have locking properties, I've got some sweeeeeet footstool tire lock combos in the Pwneroni Lab utilizing instant throws and glide tosses muahahahah >

 

[SAX]

danggg, I just checked out that tire thing you guys were talking about. We should def talk about set ups and what not.. Sadly I don't have a Wii of my own. I know Footstooling would be reliable, out of the Dair like Waft oli did. The forward throw one was just coincidental because they didn't tech, that won't really be as viable...

 

[Geerz]

True sax, very true. I'm not even sure how waft was able to Dair while holding a bike tire actually... But could a bike tire infinite be a possibility?

 

[Pwneroni]

The best way to footstool I've found is:

A. Out of a tire hit

and B. Nair2 next to the ledge to runoff fastfall footstool. Wow that was a mouthful!

As for infinites, jab locks are very easy to SDI, but if you could follow them on the ground then I don't see why not! Through testing I've determined that tire lock hits have the same directional push properties as normal tire hits. If you hit the right side of them, they will go left and vice versa. Come to think of it, that's pretty obvious haha xD nonetheless, useful to know. If you could somehow hit one side and jump and hit their other side with the tire, we may have a sweet piece of gold on our hands.

Thanks for the idea Geerz! :D

 

[Geerz]

Could we use both our tires to lock them like diddy locks people? I'm not 100% sure of the angle that tires come off, but we could lock them on the ground and finish up with a fart/fsmash/w.e we want
Or use both tires to hit them on both sides!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I was doing some testing as a result of Kismet's tire throw suggestion, and I realized some neat stuff on top of that.

First, though, throwing a tire at/immediately below the ledge does not appear to be affected (significantly, at least) by how long ago you threw it. As you probably know, if you throw a tire left or right in mid-air, the tire goes quickly from a horizontal throw angle to ~45 degrees downward due to gravity. Thankfully, that's not a problem.

That said, I believe the ideal ricochet angle would be ~60 degrees, where it would hit, say, a Marth attempting to space an Up-B perfectly. Throwing a tire horizontally at these stages will cause different effects at different stages:

Battlefield - straight down
Smashville - ~60 degrees
Lylat Cruise - ~45 degrees
Yoshi's Island - ~45 degrees (straight walls); ~60 degrees (angled edges)
Final Destination - ~60 degrees (angled edges)
Castle Siege - straight down (1st trans., left wall; 3rd trans., left wall); ~45 degrees (1st trans., right wall); ~60 degrees (3rd trans., right wall)

Also, in testing that, I learned that there are a lot more bank shot areas than I initially knew--

On Yoshi's Island, you can throw a tire toward the stage while standing on the Whimsical Support Ghost and it will bounce up at a high ~60-degree angle. If you bike is right next to the edge of the stage, you can throw it down and it will fly very quickly at a ~30-degree angle, which could make edgeguarding options better against many characters.

Also, Brinstar is perfect for bike throwing as well as tire shenanigans. If you have your bike in the center of the stage, you can quickly strike anywhere that a person could be standing due to the angled ground. Experiment with the slopes; you get some really quick throws at efficient angles on the two side platforms as well as the center hump. When you're at the right angle, you can actually ricochet the bike or a tire off the stage and above the side membrane without making it land on the platform, potentially hitting someone on the ledge.

Also, it appears that large tires bounce higher in general on a ricochet. I didn't know that.

 

[B.Mack]

erm.. yeah the jablock property of tires was discovered a long time ago... it's one of the reasons that bite is so good when you're holding a tire. if they dont tech, you can forwrd glidetoss to force getup and then charge an fsmash or a fart.

also, Kismet that point you made about bouncing tires off the ledge is awesome! well, except for how it is almost as risky as just doing a run-off bair or a drop-off fair and it means throwing a tire away which is pretty sad...

when I have a tire I never fthrow it... I just use it to advance slowly and gain more and more stage control... then at the right moment I strike! :D

 

[Geerz]

So off the sides of stages tires aren't affected by gravity? Wow, sounds like the marth MU is getting toward 50:50

 

[B.Mack]

lol, this isnt nearly significant enough to affect the MU ratio.

Although for the Marth MU I'll say this... Marth is weak as hell on the ledge. if you get him there, just stay a tiny bit away from the ledge. far enough that he cant drop-off fair you, far enough that you can react if he ledgehop nairs of fairs. but close enough to shield or avoid and punish accordingly. If Marth does a ledgehop nair or neutralB and you can fair/dair/bair him before he lands, he's offstage without his double jump. which pretty much means he's dead if you edgehog properly

 

[Pwneroni]

Wow Reflex you are a genius! "Bank Shot" is like the perrrrfect name for this haha! It could work really well, I've seen t0mmy do that kind of stuff firsthand with ROB's Gyro. The Gyro is a bit different, in that you can shoot it whenever you want, but the principal of the thing is still the same. Also tires have set knockback, while Gyro has standart kb growth and can stage spike really well.

The tire would definitely be more of a gimping thing, I'm sure it has potential to work well against non-top tiers who try to recover low. Just think of it as another mixup to cover options after all, tires take a while to acquire but not thaaaaaaat long (if you do it right, you can get a tire in 3 or 4 seconds). More than enough time if your opponent is on the ledge or recovering.

 

[Geerz]

Tires are easy to get, especially if your opponent just likes to sit. Just edge crash down throw and dair into the bike. But I've noticed that we're ignoring the BIKE. Sure, its somewhat limited but against snake if you throw it up as he's falling out of cypher you can catch him offguard and get a waft/clap

 

[Dynomite]

bike break method i use:

ledge crash>up throw>*bounce*>clap>*bounce* + airdodge = big tire in hand

 

[Kuro~]

I like biking in the air and then quickly jumping and then following it and dairing it as it falls which slows it down and lets it land on the edge of stage instead of off it. That or the usual dthrow bike shenanigans.

 

[SAX]

Dude this is getting good! There might be a fest that I'm going to tomorrow, so if i end up going I'll let you guys know how the bank shots go in actual play.

 

[Kuro~]

Dude this is getting good! There might be a fest that I'm going to tomorrow, so if i end up going I'll let you guys know how the bank shots go in actual play.

Do you know if Hr is going?

 

[SAX]

Do you know if Hr is going?

Nope haha no idea

 

[xzx]

I like to bike crash > up-tilt 3 times > Tire