Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[?!?!?!]

Fun stat that was noted on the reddit page: "89% of participants that always voted for Lloyd also always voted for Isaac except for their match up"

Lloyd bros had our back <3

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

? ?!?!?! Alright, that’s kinda cute.

 

[shellshocker18]

5935 - 57.2%
Banjo

4441 - 42.8%
Isaac


According to the statistics, Banjo was the undisputed most botted character. I find it hard to believe they could catch every single bot vote, so It's probably a little closer, but Banjo probably still would have won.

Yes, I fell like I have to apologize. I hope Banjo's victory wasn't down to bots. But Issac and Banjo are my 2 most wanted newcomers so I'm happy with he grandfinals no matter what!

 

[Pyzlnar]

I love the statistics at the bottom

Sora voters were the ones most likely to vote against the characters that defeated them, with almost 60% of them voting against Isaac in al subsequent matchups.

Geez. Talk about salt. We're here for the funs, not for the hate.

Phoenix and Lloyd voters were the ones least likely to vote against the characters that defeated them, with less than one tenth of each voting against the characters that defeated them

Big thanks to all the Lloyd bros that voted for Isaac on the subsequent matches. Here's hoping we get many of the top contenders in the game. Even as DLC.
Let this be the Ultimate Smash!

 

[TappyBat]

Fun stat that was noted on the reddit page: "89% of participants that always voted for Lloyd also always voted for Isaac except for their match up"

Lloyd bros had our back <3

best bros

 

[Machete]

Ain’t no shame in losing to Banjo, Isaacfriends. He’s a character that would’ve been in Smash a long time ago if it hadn’t been for legal troubles. If it takes Banjo-Kazooie to beat Isaac, well, the golden boy has proved himself.

Also I like seeing that Isaac’s support is mainly Europe. Golden Sun has never seemed as niche or obscure here as a lot of people claim it is.

The poll does kinda prove he’s the most wanted first party character remaining. So there’s hope! For base roster, and for dlc, if worse comes to worst.

 

[SonicLink125]

Another fun stat I read was that Banjo was the most heavily botted vote while Isaac and Lloyd were the least. That really gets me as the 27,000 votes Isaac got compared to Banjo's 17,000. Like, what?!?

 

[?!?!?!]

Another fun stat I read was that Banjo was the most heavily botted vote while Isaac and Lloyd were the least. That really gets me as the 27,000 votes Isaac got compared to Banjo's 17,000. Like, what?!?

We're popular dude, we're in the big leagues now

 

[TappyBat]

hope for dlc then?

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

We're popular dude, we're in the big leagues now

We could very well be the new Ridley! We have the haters for it already!

hope for dlc then?

I haven't let go of hope for base quite yet, but If we make enough noise now it'll bode well during DLC discussions

 

[QcSlayer]

Welp we tried boyz...

N.1 In first party
N.1 In vote
N.2 Overall
N.1 In less bot

So pretty good, but still:

 

[Delta64]

Billybae10K just saw your Music Theory Video (you did an amazing job of explaining it thank you). I have been following it for a while now and I can't help but think that it does have some merit. We have 9 more music samples between now and release. With at least two more new unique characters to be revealed and Motoi Sakuraba still not showing up on the website, here is hoping that he is cooking up a fanfare that screams "GOLDEN SUN IS BACK"!

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Billybae10K just saw your Music Theory Video (you did an amazing job of explaining it thank you). I have been following it for a while now and I can't help but think that it does have some merit. We have 9 more music samples between now and release. With at least two more new unique characters to be revealed and Motoi Sakuraba still not showing up on the website, here is hoping that he is cooking up a fanfare that screams "GOLDEN SUN IS BACK"!

Saturos battle theme metal remix pls

 

[Tecnoid]

Billybae10K just saw your Music Theory Video (you did an amazing job of explaining it thank you). I have been following it for a while now and I can't help but think that it does have some merit. We have 9 more music samples between now and release. With at least two more new unique characters to be revealed and Motoi Sakuraba still not showing up on the website, here is hoping that he is cooking up a fanfare that screams "GOLDEN SUN IS BACK"!

I want to see a Golden Sun Medley with the best themes from the series

 

[Gurein]

hope for dlc then?

This one's for you.

 

[KMDP]

So we ended up with the Silver Medal, huh? I would have voted, but I spent all day sleeping off a cold. *shrug*
---

I'm not sure this is true.

And quite honestly if Banjo had stayed a Nintendo character he would've gotten in a long time ago, probably in Brawl. Isaac is a Nintendo character and is still fighting to get in. I think Banjo has the upper hand in terms of pedigree, but Isaac's never had to contend with a competitor scooping you up.

I actually agree with this.
However, here's something I had thought about after posting it.

At the time, Banjo had the advantage of being a Rare character. Rare had previously made two smash hits in the Donkey Kong Country series, which inherently gives the Banjo-Kazooie games a sales advantage.

Camelot on the other hand, were best known for Shining Force (which as an RPG was niche) and the Mario Golf and Mario Tennis games, which weren't RPGs. Even then, most of the Shining Force games were made under a different company name (Sonic! Software Planning) and on a different Company's consoles. Golden Sun managed to get something close to Banjo-Kazooie's sales figures despite huge marketing hurdles, which shouldn't be disregarded.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

How do you guys know Motoi Sakuraba is working on Ultimate?

 

[Tecnoid]

How do you guys know Motoi Sakuraba is working on Ultimate?

You can see his name on the August direct. He composed the Vs. Parasite Queen theme.

 

[QcSlayer]

How do you guys know Motoi Sakuraba is working on Ultimate?

I trust Wikipedia on that one and he work for the series before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motoi_Sakuraba

 

[Chiroz]

So we ended up with the Silver Medal, huh? I would have voted, but I spent all day sleeping off a cold. *shrug*
---

I actually agree with this.
However, here's something I had thought about after posting it.

At the time, Banjo had the advantage of being a Rare character. Rare had previously made two smash hits in the Donkey Kong Country series, which inherently gives the Banjo-Kazooie games a sales advantage.

Camelot on the other hand, were best known for Shining Force (which as an RPG was niche) and the Mario Golf and Mario Tennis games, which weren't RPGs. Even then, most of the Shining Force games were made under a different company name (Sonic! Software Planning) and on a different Company's consoles. Golden Sun managed to get something close to Banjo-Kazooie's sales figures despite huge marketing hurdles, which shouldn't be disregarded.

While your point would make sense in today’s internet world, it was very different back then.

Knowing that Rare made Banjo Kazooie meant having to read the back of the box as a toddler/early teenager. Most of the games were bought by parents too, so they would have no idea.

Also knowing that Rare made DKC meant actually paying attention to credits in Super Nintendo games as it wasn’t as prominently displayed as it was in N64.

All in all, maybe the adults of that time could have been aware, but most of Banjo’s current fans were very young kids and never associated any of that.

I mean I beat DKC and Banjo and didn’t realize the same people made both until I ****ing realized that “Bear” in Diddy Kong Racing (which I beat BEFORE Banjo) was actually Banjo all along.



Edit: Also good to note that Rare and Konami made so many of the “staple” N64 games that as a kid I just thought they were all just part of Nintendo and wouldn’t know which game was specifically Konami or which was one was specifically Rare.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

How do you guys know Motoi Sakuraba is working on Ultimate?

They did Parasite Queen remix we saw in the August Direct, but given that's the only remix we know they've done so far, and they haven't been featured on the blog yet there's hope out there that they did a Golden Sun remix that will be shown if and when Isaac is revealed.

 

[Nazyrus]

Watch both Lloyd and Isaac make it in together and celebrate like bros

 

[TheZoologist]

Even though Banjo won the poll today, I'm rooting for Issac to make it in just as much as Banjo & Kazooie. Just bringing in another unique universe to play with is always rewarding in Smash and it would be awesome to be introduced to Golden Sun that way. We're all in the same boat, having characters we love who haven't had new iterations of their series in ages and have strong history with Nintendo as flagship titles on two different but important consoles. Good luck these last few months, everyone. We're all in this together, and if Issac, Geno, & Banjo-Kazooie make it in to the base roster, this will truly be the Ultimate Smash Bros.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow, Sora fanboys are so thin-skinned.

 

[Q-Long]

I think Sora fanboys aren't as close to Isaac fans as Lloyd are. There's just more crossover from their two games.

Sora has like no nintendo precense, so they dont have any voting context. Like, a lloyd or ray or andy fan will be able to understand why someone is voting for isaac or geno or whoever.

But in the case of sora fans they dont, so alot of them only know revenge voting

 

[Gurein]

How do you guys know Motoi Sakuraba is working on Ultimate?

Sakuraba is quite active as a composer, and he did work on both brawl and 4 I believe? There's no concrete proof that he is working on Ultimate, but it's very likely.
Also, it doesn't have to be him to make the arrangement of potential new Golden sun tracks, see gangplank galleon (though it would be stupid if he didn't arrange any new tracks at all himself)

 

[Deleted member]

I think Sora fanboys aren't as close to Isaac fans as Lloyd are. There's just more crossover from their two games.

Sora has like no nintendo precense, so they dont have any voting context. Like, a lloyd or ray or andy fan will be able to understand why someone is voting for isaac or geno or whoever.

But in the case of sora fans they dont, so alot of them only know revenge voting

They're too busy writing their Organization XIII fanfics to actually do their research.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

The supporting information indicates that Sora fans were the most bitter about their loss, with a 60% likilehood to vote again their Isaac every round, looks like my description of him as the “fierce rival” yesterday was correct. The 30% angaisnt swordsmen no matter what statement concerns me. Would Isaac and or Lloyd be met with some mainstream unwarranted hate upon reveal?

I also find it interesting how a very large audience, of Isaac support comes from Europe. This is reinforced by polls I’ve seen coming from Spain and Germany where Isaac topped each. It seems to me that a large sum of Isaac ballot support probably came from the region, and if that’s the case I can see a scenario in which he gets in based on fans demand from that region. Mind you this is a sample years after the fact, but once an Isaac supporter always an Isaac supporter. We’re a diligent bunch.

The Lloyd Isaac bromance is totally confirmed with the realization that’s the overwhelming majority of dedicated Lloyd voters voted for Isaac, save theirmatchup. “Best friend” is a completely accurate description there. I have never played a tales of game. But even I supported Lloyd due to the kindness of his community, so you better believe tales of symphonia is on my to buy list.

Geno’s support coming almost exclusively from America actually suggests to me that he may be less likely for smash then I had in Initally thought. K rool had a titanic amount of American support, and if they were picking solely based on who’s most popular region by region, well then K rool probably took Genos potential spot. As where Isaac gets the next lowest European slot after Bayonetta. And...Chrom won japan? Well who knows. We’ll have to wait and see.

Seeing so many banjo fans look upon Isaac fans and golden sun fans with respect after such an awesome bracket suggests to me that my projected end was more or less true. I can image in our goofy anime that Banjo picks the beaten Isaac up of the ground by his hand, raises it in the air, and tells him he was the worthiest challenge he had ever faced in that ring. And the crowd chants Isaac's name one last time.

 

[TappyBat]

The supporting information indicates that Sora fans were the most bitter about their loss, with a 60% likilehood to vote again their Isaac every round, looks like my description of him as the “fierce rival” yesterday was correct. The 30% angaisnt swordsmen no matter what statement concerns me. Would Isaac and or Lloyd be met with some mainstream unwarranted hate upon reveal?

I also find it interesting how a very large audience, of Isaac support comes from Europe. This is reinforced by polls I’ve seen coming from Spain and Germany where Isaac topped each. It seems to me that a large sum of Isaac ballot support probably came from the region, and if that’s the case I can see a scenario in which he gets in based on fans demand from that region. Mind you this is a sample years after the fact, but once an Isaac supporter always an Isaac supporter. We’re a diligent bunch.

The Lloyd Isaac bromance is totally confirmed with the realization that’s the overwhelming majority of dedicated Lloyd voters voted for Isaac, save theirmatchup. “Best friend” is a completely accurate description there. I have never played a tales of game. But even I supported Lloyd due to the kindness of his community, so you better believe tales of symphonia is on my to buy list.

Geno’s support coming almost exclusively from America actually suggests to me that he may be less likely for smash then I had in Initally thought. K rool had a titanic amount of American support, and if they were picking solely based on who’s most popular region by region, well then K rool probably took Genos potential spot. As where Isaac gets the next lowest European slot after Bayonetta. And...Chrom won japan? Well who knows. We’ll have to wait and see.

Seeing so many banjo fans look upon Isaac fans and golden sun fans with respect after such an awesome bracket suggests to me that my projected end was more or less true. I can image in our goofy anime that Banjo picks the beaten Isaac up of the ground by his hand, raises it in the air, and tells him he was the worthiest challenge he had ever faced in that ring. And the crowd chants Isaac's name one last time.

of course. "aaaahhhhh a sword! kill him!" "um, did you not see the trailer? he was throwing rocks around and-" "I saw I sword! he's worthless ahhhhh!"

 

[Organization XIII]

They're too busy writing their Organization XIII fanfics to actually do their research.

Wow that almost feels personal

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think Sora fanboys aren't as close to Isaac fans as Lloyd are. There's just more crossover from their two games.

Sora has like no nintendo precense, so they dont have any voting context. Like, a lloyd or ray or andy fan will be able to understand why someone is voting for isaac or geno or whoever.

But in the case of sora fans they dont, so alot of them only know revenge voting

What do you mean Sora has no Nintendo presence?

 

[TappyBat]

What do you mean Sora has no Nintendo presence?

just like 3 games with none of them being main titles and everyone deriding the ones we got as "spinoffs" even though they're really important. (well, except recoded I guess)

 

[Organization XIII]

What do you mean Sora has no Nintendo presence?

Well, he is majorly associated with Sony. While he does have a few games on Nintendo systems most people don't play those or don't care for them nearly as much as the ones that are on Sony consoles. It may not be technically correct to say he has no Nintendo presence but really it's not much of an exaggeration.

 

[Golden Icarus]

‘89% of Lloyd voters always voted for Isaac’
‘68% of Isaac voters always voted for Lloyd’
‘The least botted characters were Isaac and Lloyd’
‘Lloyd voters were the least likely to vote against the character that defeated them’

Damn, Isaac and Lloyd bros are the absolute realest.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Banjo reigns supreme, it seems! Congratulations to him and Kazooie!

But from a bear and the breegull that made SM64 look actually boring, I'm not surprised. Now I really wish they weren't in their currently sad predicament of being under Microsoft's cruddy management still.

Nevertheless - Isaac and the fans, even if you got somewhat landslided by Banjo... just look at how far you made beforehand. You all did amazingly well.

I think it's a Gematsu situation where some of his sources are partially right

Most likely. I guess the stakes are probably higher than in 4 though due how this is well, the Ultimate Showdown for the entire series, and we already got some big hitters making it.

Also didnt recognize you there valk, nice pfp lol

Why thank you - I was sure peeps didn't like it because SAO's my inner guilty pleasure while in the general anime community... you know... they "dislike" it. Anyway:

Regardless, he's almost single-handedly responsible for mostly killing off talks of any character possibilities in the base beyond Red shotokan and Tony the Tiger (which bothers me, since I'm an Incineroar fan myself).

I guarantee you that if he ever "leaked" anything about Spirits and claimed that it was a story-less adventure mode like Melee, people wouldn't look forward to imagining an SSE-esque scenario and drop the subject.

Already feared about the implications like this when the Box Theory Leak and more made rounds, but this is on full motion now?

If so... yeeesh. That really sucks. I mean it, really does.

I already had talked about how much damage this would do not only on the overall speculation community, but also be able to kill majority of the game's hype train as a result in Sakurai's eyes, especially with the amazing momentum Ultimate got to build on since August Direct and peeps mainly hoped to see more big hitters join with Ridley and Rool + Simon.

This all just makes this very unfortunate and unfair to him and the team -- especially with how he tried so badly to ensure none would have any idea who's in the game, including some of the higher devs themselves.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

This sort of thing is why regardless of how correct he could be, I still don't love Vergeben. He's always just had way too many outs for any false information, and he's handled the Pokemon and Square Enix portions of his leak pretty horrendously. It's less talked about nowadays, but with the Pokemon reveal he strung people along for a while before he finally settled on not Decidueye, Lycanrock, or Mimikyu (Which was all around not great) and then only confirmed Incineroar forever later despite the general tone being if not them, then certainly Incineroar from the community til he finally settled on saying Incineroar.

And the Square Enix character has been all over the place. First it was he didn't want to be wrong and held accountable for the possibility, then it was saying who would get him in trouble. Things just started to get increasingly painful for everyone involved.

He seems very hesitant to commit to things with regards to information, more so than a person who supposedly knows insiders should be. Like I get everything he is saying could be true about multiple sources with a need to protect them, but generally speaking he hasn't had this same crazy song and dance with other games.

Say what you will about Gematsu, but that leak was as straight forward as they come. Here is the information, done. Verge seems to be trying to be this active community member, yet he's reluctant to commit or let people what he knows. That reluctance has pretty much soured him in my eyes regardless of if he is right or not. He's not been straightforward or forthcoming with information. Half his confirmations involved saying "trash it" to other leaks because a certain character wasn't there. I get that a person leaking information isn't held to a standard of professionalism, but he's been very unprofessional and internet fame driven about the whole ordeal.

Smash is by far the biggest game he is leaking. He's been open with other games, as the other communities are not as in tune with leaks as the Smash fanbase is. Look at how many still remember the Gematsu leak or Lucario accidentally getting leaked in one of the Brawl trailers. People remember Smash leaks way more than other games, so if he gets anything wrong about Smash, he'll never be taken seriously online ever again. This is why he is being extra careful about it.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Fun stat that was noted on the reddit page: "89% of participants that always voted for Lloyd also always voted for Isaac except for their match up"

Lloyd bros had our back <3

View attachment 168097
‘89% of Lloyd voters always voted for Isaac’
‘68% of Isaac voters always voted for Lloyd’
‘The least botted characters were Isaac and Lloyd’
‘Lloyd voters were the least likely to vote against the character that defeated them’

Damn, Isaac and Lloyd bros are the absolute realest.

Yeeees.

This pleases me so greatly.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

What do you mean Sora has no Nintendo presence?

The issue that Sora hasn't been accociated with Nintendo since SE doesn't seem to advertise it on Nintendo consoles. (Sony gets all the spotlight.)

While I don't think it's gonna ruin his chances that's much, I find it hypocritical that SE and Disney would be so keen on letting Sora in smash, when they barely gave a **** about the Big N in the first place.

(Then again, I felt the same way about cloud.)

 

[NessAtc.]

The issue that Sora hasn't been accociated with Nintendo since SE doesn't seem to advertise it on Nintendo consoles. (Sony gets all the spotlight.)

While I don't think it's gonna ruin his chances that's much, I find it hypocritical that SE and Disney would be so keen on letting Sora in smash, when they barely gave a **** about the Big N in the first place.

(Then again, I felt the same way about cloud.)

money, that's why

 

[XenoWarriorX]

money, that's why

Of course it's money.