Roy 3.5

[G13_Flux]

i really dont think the uair nerf was intended to hurt his uair strings, nor do i think that it really will. i think it was more about the fact that it was -0 on shield. it gave roy a way to get right in close on shield and stay safe, throwing out a jab or something to beat grabs. now its just -2. which in all honesty is still pretty safe. he can roll away, spot dodge, or run away to stay safe. he can still technically throw out a jab to beat grabbers but only if its done perfectly.

i think that the fact that his side b clanks with projectiles is huge. he can literally swat through things like marios fireballs or links boomerangs which makes it pretty damn good imo. i always hated that it was unclankable in 3.02.. the tighter window also shouldnt be too big of a deal. when spaced correctly, and when you properly vary the sequence of your DED and the number of hits of DED you choose to utilize, you can avoid shield grabs pretty well. it just gives the opponent a little bit more wiggle room and forces you to use the move skillfully; they are still in a bad position regardless.

the dair sweetspot will be interesting to get used to. as much as i did like being able to more easily meteor smash opponents from the ledge, it will still be a potent tool and just takes more precision to use. and at any rate, anything that you hit with coming off the ledge with a dair is beneficial anyways, and is likely to get you a kill. roy also has plenty of ways to set up into the sweet spot regardless, beween dtilt, uair, fair, and dair. its definitely going to reward the precise player far more.

 

[Ghetto Blush]

I'm hitting the weird semi-spike hitbox of the dair a lot now. It's really hard to predict when the sourspot will semi-spike and when it will pop them up. Does anyone know what parts of the swords correspond to these properties?

Also does anyone else feel that the nair hitbox seems a bit smaller? Is that because of the "Other" changes or am I just imagining it?

 

[Pitzer]

I feel like Roy has gotten better in this iteration, he'll just take some time to get use to, Dair sourspot being a semi spike is really good. The ability to clank with Side B is also a plus vs Samus and other projectile users. I feel he'll be strong in the long run with all the nerfs to the ******** recoveries in the game.

 

[9bit]

roy is my only definite vote for top tier in 3.5

maybe sheik but most sheik players are awful

i told a few of the texas kids yesterday that i think alex will be having a reallllll good year

Seriously. In my completely uninformed opinion I really feel like Roy could have used some nerfs, but instead got... this. He's gonna dominate.

 

[Hellrazor]

@ Pitzer

Your signature was a wild ride. You seem to have uncovered some new secrets (those dairs tho). Is it from a video? I need to watch that... slowed down... for science.

 

[QuantumKiller]

I hope PMDT made these changes for the better. Though I would like a better hitbox for dair so you can somewhat tell if you're going to hit it. Doesn't have to be the old one but something that you can hit reliably if you position it right. I've been practicing it for like 3 hours yesterday and I don't think I will be trying to land it as much anymore in matches.

DED >>v property changes left me heartbroken. It now knocks people back at a higher angle rather than more horizontally. I don't think I will touch the move anymore because it's not as useful as the other 2 deviations of it in most situations. I think that the unique KB properties the move was given in 3.5 made it so that if you knew when to use that move in the correct situation you would be rewarded greatly. I really really liked thinking about which pattern of DED would be optimal but now the option feel smaller for me. Maybe I'll find a way to better use the new KB angle, oh well....

Also does anyone else feel that the nair hitbox seems a bit smaller? Is that because of the "Other" changes or am I just imagining it?

Haven't felt that at all. I'm to lazy to check, but it could have been one of the changes for the hitboxs to better fit his animations.

Seriously. In my completely uninformed opinion I really feel like Roy could have used some nerfs, but instead got... this. He's gonna dominate.

You think he need some nerfs? What do you think is unfair about him? He's a gud boy .

 

[QuantumKiller]

@ Pitzer
Your signature was a wild ride. You seem to have uncovered some new secrets (those dairs tho). Is it from a video? I need to watch that... slowed down... for science.

tryingtolandthenewdairsweetspot.gif
Jk, but really that combo is insane. I request the video too.

 

[Deleted member]

You think he need some nerfs? What do you think is unfair about him? He's a gud boy .

its more like roy was already pretty underrated and now everyone is much worse. also projectile nerfs and recovery nerfs happen to help his design more than other characters. perhaps most importantly, the majority of the community seems to think roy is fine as is and no one seems eager to nerf him, so switching to roy is a pretty safe move

 

[Leafeon]

its more like roy was already pretty underrated and now everyone is much worse. also projectile nerfs and recovery nerfs happen to help his design more than other characters. perhaps most importantly, the majority of the community seems to think roy is fine as is and no one seems eager to nerf him, so switching to roy is a pretty safe move

I'll keep playing Roy even if he were subject to being nerfed to oblivion.

 

[QuantumKiller]

its more like roy was already pretty underrated and now everyone is much worse. also projectile nerfs and recovery nerfs happen to help his design more than other characters. perhaps most importantly, the majority of the community seems to think roy is fine as is and no one seems eager to nerf him, so switching to roy is a pretty safe move

Yeah, I think Roy is one of the most balanced characters in PM. No need for a drastic change of his overall character.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I think Roy is one of the most balanced characters in PM. No need for a drastic change of his overall character.

balanced in terms of design ethos i agree. in terms of cast balanced? not so much. my early impression is that roy and sheik are both quite good this time around, although thankfully most players are tragically bad at pure fundaments characters so they might be left alone

 

[Pitzer]

Ironic thing is my name is Alex as well. <3 Also this was from a stream I could link the stream if y'all want the past broadcast, I do play majority of my matches as Roy, but I also played Snake, Mewtwo, Marth, Falco, Falcon, ZSS and Ganondorf.

http://www.twitch.tv/xenixpzc/b/589653810 Pitzer Gauntlet starts at 3:09:10

 

[Taytertot]

i really dont think the uair nerf was intended to hurt his uair strings, nor do i think that it really will. i think it was more about the fact that it was -0 on shield. it gave roy a way to get right in close on shield and stay safe, throwing out a jab or something to beat grabs. now its just -2. which in all honesty is still pretty safe. he can roll away, spot dodge, or run away to stay safe. he can still technically throw out a jab to beat grabbers but only if its done perfectly.

i think that the fact that his side b clanks with projectiles is huge. he can literally swat through things like marios fireballs or links boomerangs which makes it pretty damn good imo. i always hated that it was unclankable in 3.02.. the tighter window also shouldnt be too big of a deal. when spaced correctly, and when you properly vary the sequence of your DED and the number of hits of DED you choose to utilize, you can avoid shield grabs pretty well. it just gives the opponent a little bit more wiggle room and forces you to use the move skillfully; they are still in a bad position regardless.

the dair sweetspot will be interesting to get used to. as much as i did like being able to more easily meteor smash opponents from the ledge, it will still be a potent tool and just takes more precision to use. and at any rate, anything that you hit with coming off the ledge with a dair is beneficial anyways, and is likely to get you a kill. roy also has plenty of ways to set up into the sweet spot regardless, beween dtilt, uair, fair, and dair. its definitely going to reward the precise player far more.

to the uair and side B changes fair enough you pose good points though Im uncertain about dair. the hitbox is such that it makes it harder to sweetspot, which is fine for opponents in the air, it just takes more finesse, but I haven't been able to sweetspot a grounded opponent yet and that does take away from the combos into uair chains that it used to give roy. I also am unsure that dtilt, uair, fair and dair really setup into the sweetspot spike. I'm fairly certain it is DI dependent in all cases except dtilt, which they can DI towards to the stage so that the dair doesnt spike them offstage, I believe.

I am still hopeful I just feel that that change may have traded utility for a semi-unreliable KO move, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[CyberZixx]

Interesting that Umbreon thinks Roy is top tier now. I respect him a lot so curious how it goes. If anything Sethlon may finally win a major.

 

[Oddyesy]

Is it streamed? I'd love to check it out.

As for me, I think everything I've noticed has been mentioned already. I really do love the new Awakening recolor though. Looks fantastic.

I was extremely happy when dair became a spike after watching Sethlon Ken combo a few times and get gipped by a simple up-b.

Uh... Here it is (with links to all of their other media sites). Also for anyone interested.

Also I'm seeing a lot of differing opinions with Roy, some say he's trash tier, some say he's top tier... what gives?

 

[Azureflames]

My friend who mains roy insists he's back to melee level terrible.

tell your friend he's a nerdburgler and a little too much of a salty peanut. I personally think he's in a really good place. He didnt get hit too bad imo. Real talk though, If your friend honestly thinks roy is trash tier now from the tiniest change to Uair strings and a subtle adjustment to his Dair sweetspot he's kinda nuts. Especially with the side-b clank feature he got and the rest of his kit being untouched...AND the fact that universally the cast recovery got nerfed. Like i said, i think Roy's in a great spot atm.

I didnt really get into competitive smash until ~2.6PM came out so i didnt know much about melee roy particularly, but wasnt the whole issue with his kit the fact that he had a rough time with kill options due to no finisher like his current Bair or gimping ability (like marth had)? I've heard sethlon even mention he could combo people for days like he does not but he could never finish people off without a struggle.

i think that the fact that his side b clanks with projectiles is huge. he can literally swat through things like marios fireballs or links boomerangs which makes it pretty damn good imo. i always hated that it was unclankable in 3.02.. the tighter window also shouldnt be too big of a deal. when spaced correctly, and when you properly vary the sequence of your DED and the number of hits of DED you choose to utilize, you can avoid shield grabs pretty well. it just gives the opponent a little bit more wiggle room and forces you to use the move skillfully; they are still in a bad position regardless.

I feel like you are the only other player that sees that and appreciates the clank change. Everyone i've seen that plays roy overlooks the new clank feature and just complains about the Dair change and how its a little more difficult to hit, which it is...but I dont think it's a big issue honestly. The clank change on side b means that you have a running jab input against characters like link, mario, lucas or ivy. I think if anything he received overall buffs cause of that alone. Now you arent forced to either powershield reflect projectiles or jab>WD>jab>WD etc etc. like you said Uair strings wont be affected too much either imo

balanced in terms of design ethos i agree. in terms of cast balanced? not so much. my early impression is that roy and sheik are both quite good this time around, although thankfully most players are tragically bad at pure fundaments characters so they might be left alone

It's probably too early to say in terms of cast balancing since its so early on. We'll find out though...I do think he'll be considered decently high up on the castlist now. I've always considered him the definition of balance in this game honestly.

 

[G13_Flux]

I feel like you are the only other player that sees that and appreciates the clank change. Everyone i've seen that plays roy overlooks the new clank feature and just complains about the Dair change and how its a little more difficult to hit, which it is...but I dont think it's a big issue honestly. The clank change on side b means that you have a running jab input against characters like link, mario, lucas or ivy. I think if anything he received overall buffs cause of that alone. Now you arent forced to either powershield reflect projectiles or jab>WD>jab>WD etc etc. like you said Uair strings wont be affected too much either imo

yup its been something ive always thought of since 3.0 came out. DED is so potent if you can really mix up how you use it, and since ive put a lot of time into trying to get good with it, this change was one of the few that stuck out to me haha.

the spike change is just a bonus sure its harder to hit with, and once i realized that i knew that it would be the first thing that everyone pointed out. i was totally fine with it being a meteor smash, and in fact i was one of the few that always advocated for roy not needing the spike. however, now that he has it, its just going to force you to be all the more precise in order to get the best reward. its obviously not intended to be easy, but it is possible, and a bit of practice with it is going to yield A LOT of reward, especially on top of the other powerful combo and kill moves in roys arsenal.

 

[ninjuh1124]

Also I'm seeing a lot of differing opinions with Roy, some say he's trash tier, some say he's top tier... what gives?

He's a fundamentals-based character. His tier depends almost solely on the player playing him.

 

[G13_Flux]

^kinda technically goes for any character in PM imo. roy is definitely not trash tier though. might not be top, but he could easily pull off mid-high tier in 3.5 the way i see it.

 

[Pitzer]

I think he's gonna be like top 8.

 

[Ghetto Blush]

I don't really get why people think he's suddenly so good now. Granted a lot of the rest of the cast got nerfs, but Roy still has the same weaknesses as before.

He's still incredibly easy to edge-guard, combo-food, and he still struggles against floaties.

 

[G13_Flux]

I don't really get why people think he's suddenly so good now. Granted a lot of the rest of the cast got nerfs, but Roy still has the same weaknesses as before.

He's still incredibly easy to edge-guard, combo-food, and he still struggles against floaties.

hes actually not entirely easy to edge guard. you havent faced a good roy if you think he is. also doesnt struggle all too much against floaties as much as you think. uair kills them with juggles, and if you cover your space efficiently then they have a tough time getting through to you. he definitely still has his weaknesses but a smart roy has the tools to keep himself safe from harm. he outranges literally all but few characters that can compete with his range, and if you use that attribute properly, your opponent should have relative difficulty getting something started. is it fool proof? no, but with the defensive tools he has in his moveset (fair, nair, long grab range, amazing jab, tilts that offer excellent coverage, and great reward from CCing) opponents should typically have a much harder time getting in on him and getting something set up. smash history has shown us that even the most combo prone characters can be considered the best in the game.

that being said, its not like im saying roy is top tier all the sudden. mid tier definitely, high tier likely. top tier i guess is a possibility but thats extremely dependent on how MUs across the board work out and im not making any claims to that position yet.

 

[ObdurateMARio]

I don't really get why people think he's suddenly so good now. Granted a lot of the rest of the cast got nerfs, but Roy still has the same weaknesses as before.

He's still incredibly easy to edge-guard, combo-food, and he still struggles against floaties.

Roy is pretty tricky to edgeguard, if the other player knows what they're doing. How long he hangs from his up B alone is pretty awesome. His recovery range is poor, but if he's in range, he should be back.

Now, easy to gimp? Absolutely. Poor DI will get a Roy killed at any %.

 

[BBOY15]

Roy feels about the same to me, which is a good thing. I do notice the Uair lag a lot because I don't L cancel, but I use his Uair less frequently than most Roys anyways. I prefer using up-tilt or Nair.

 

[psiaf]

I was a little upset about the uair tweak (I refuse to call it a nerf) but it makes perfect sense and still allows room for shenanigans if you hit a shield.
I'm still getting accustomed to using his dair as a kill move so I don't have much opinion on the spike other than it seems totally fair. Marth can ken combo and it's plenty difficult and DI dependent so why shouldn't Roy be able to. plus the other hitboxes all do something useful so the move retains its utility.
the biggest problem I've run into is my DED timings. I frequently only manage the first two hits but that's, of course, on me to learn and I don't have much of a problem with the addition of two frames to the timing. I assume the PMDT had a good reason for doing and I'll trust their decision.
Honestly, I feel like the new Roy will indeed be our boy, especially once Sethlon gets out of the lab and begins his fiery rampage across the tourney scene. the biggest 'buff' Roy got was the fact that most everyone else has been tweaked and is subsequently weaker than in 3.02. fear the fire.

 

[Jolteon]

Interesting that Umbreon thinks Roy is top tier now. I respect him a lot so curious how it goes. If anything Sethlon may finally win a major.

I can see where he is coming from. Global changes addressing projectile strength and move commitment make conventional forms of movement such as dash dancing considerably stronger in neutral. Additionally (and perhaps most importantly), toning down tools that mitigate positional advantage, such as low risk recoveries + burst movement tools, play well into Roy's strength at maintaining positional advantage and juggling opponents.

It's obviously way too early to establish a tier list for 3.5, but I have also had thoughts that Roy will be phenomenal in this patch.

 

[Deleted member]

theres more to the dashdancing thing that usual too since roy has the best non-grab conversion out of DD (dtilt). having that iasa in the DD mirror is a really big deal since roy has the best potential to show down the DD mirror on the dash away. melee marth won this exchange in that game for the same reason, but roy's dtilt is just gravy on hit confirm, as opposed to marth's which is mostly just harassment that is parleyed into a possible grab.

 

[Taytertot]

I don't really get why people think he's suddenly so good now. Granted a lot of the rest of the cast got nerfs, but Roy still has the same weaknesses as before.

He's still incredibly easy to edge-guard, combo-food, and he still struggles against floaties.

Sure his weaknesses are more or less the same, but that's not to say that he cant be successful. He's always had the capacity to be successful, especially if you watch sethlon. Sethlon has proven that roy has always been good. So he isnt suddenly good it just that people are noticing him more and more.
Its true that he doesnt have the greatest recovery but the multi-hit upB makes him somewhat difficult to edgeguard. I'm not sure that he truely struggles against floaties I think you just have to play differently vs them. Yes hes combo food but so are many great characters and having that weakness doesn't take away from his potential to high-tier.

 

[CyberZixx]

Roy's Dtilt is seriously incredible. Really liking what i'm hearing about Roy. Gets me fired (heh) up to improve in way I never in a long time.

I was a little upset about the uair tweak (I refuse to call it a nerf) but it makes perfect sense and still allows room for shenanigans if you hit a shield.

the biggest problem I've run into is my DED timings. I frequently only manage the first two hits but that's, of course, on me to learn and I don't have much of a problem with the addition of two frames to the timing. I assume the PMDT had a good reason for doing and I'll trust their decision.

I have had zero issue with the timing. Literately I used the exact timing I did before and it worked perfect. Once you it down, it should be fine.

Sign me up to agreeing that Roy's recovery is not THAT bad. Especially in comparison to 3.5 cast.The upb itself is a great recovery tool.

I never considered the use of sideb as a jab in DD for projectiles. gotta mess with that. Sounds really good.

 

[Leafeon]

I can see where he is coming from. Global changes addressing projectile strength and move commitment make conventional forms of movement such as dash dancing considerably stronger in neutral. Additionally (and perhaps most importantly), toning down tools that mitigate positional advantage, such as low risk recoveries + burst movement tools, play well into Roy's strength at maintaining positional advantage and juggling opponents.

It's obviously way too early to establish a tier list for 3.5, but I have also had thoughts that Roy will be phenomenal in this patch.

You mean, -I- get to look down on others for playing the inferior character?
ME?
Whoa.

tbh I think the thought process really comes down to looking at the list and seeing who didn't get nerfed who was already doing decent in tournies, they're top tier now. At least the players that win with home won't win through complete jank. But who knows, we'll see. Meanwhile ohkoing jigs with turnaround single-hit up-b jank.

 

[Shokio]

My only issue is the the reduced size of the sweetspot Dair. It was already the hardest meteor/spike hitbox in the entire game......did they really have to make it any smaller?

It'd be OK if the spike was really strong, but it's actually a pretty weak spike. Smaller hitbox + weak spike vs. getting a spike.....that turns out to be a nerf altogether, despite the good it was intended to do.

But it's no biggie. Other than that, Roy feels great. I think he got slightly nerfed overall, but not in any game-changing Roy. He's still very much 3.02 Roy. I don't mind the Up Air nerf at all, and the faster walk speed is something I actually always wanted.

 

[Smolder]

My only issue is the the reduced size of the sweetspot Dair. It was already the hardest meteor/spike hitbox in the entire game......did they really have to make it any smaller?

It'd be OK if the spike was really strong, but it's actually a pretty weak spike. Smaller hitbox + weak spike vs. getting a spike.....that turns out to be a nerf altogether, despite the good it was intended to do.

But it's no biggie. Other than that, Roy feels great. I think he got slightly nerfed overall, but not in any game-changing Roy. He's still very much 3.02 Roy. I don't mind the Up Air nerf at all, and the faster walk speed is something I actually always wanted.

I can agree with this. Several players have survived my spike. Even if a Mewtwo player is above 100% and I spike him, (assuming he saved his DJ) he will survive. Overall though, Roy feels really good and the smaller sweet spot just encourages Roys to be even better players.

 

[Pitzer]

My only issue is the the reduced size of the sweetspot Dair. It was already the hardest meteor/spike hitbox in the entire game......did they really have to make it any smaller?

It'd be OK if the spike was really strong, but it's actually a pretty weak spike. Smaller hitbox + weak spike vs. getting a spike.....that turns out to be a nerf altogether, despite the good it was intended to do.

But it's no biggie. Other than that, Roy feels great. I think he got slightly nerfed overall, but not in any game-changing Roy. He's still very much 3.02 Roy. I don't mind the Up Air nerf at all, and the faster walk speed is something I actually always wanted.

Yeah but now Roy's Dair has 3 things, 1 a spike (SweetSpotted), 2 a knock up (Centered), 3 a semi spike (Tippered).
This being said if you cover the ledge with a rising Dair it just opens a lot of windows and magically things of the firey kind can happen.

Overall I feel like Sethlon should win a Major now, and I shall be playing only Roy for a while <3

 

[Shokio]

Yeah but now Roy's Dair has 3 things, 1 a spike (SweetSpotted), 2 a knock up (Centered), 3 a semi spike (Tippered).
This being said if you cover the ledge with a rising Dair it just opens a lot of windows and magically things of the firey kind can happen.

Overall I feel like Sethlon should win a Major now, and I shall be playing only Roy for a while <3

Oh, the tipper is a semi spike now? I had no idear. I guess that evens things.

Yeah, now that everyone has been brought down to Roy's level, Sethlon is going to get his way >=).

I've actually had some people tell me/ I've seen others say that Roy is top tier now. I'm just like 'lolno, you've just been brought into his world now. Welcome to mid tier.'

 

[Strong Badam]

Roy has always had a semi-spike hitbox on his dair, since 3.0.

 

[Shokio]

Roy has always had a semi-spike hitbox on his dair, since 3.0.

I mean I knew the sour-spot hit people away, I did it all the time, but it never felt like an actual semi-spike. This is news to me lol.

 

[Smolder]

Roy has always had a semi-spike hitbox on his dair, since 3.0.

^^ This. It is just much easier to land now. Must have to do with his cleaned up hitboxes.

 

[Strong Badam]

Its KB angle is 37 iirc, which is lower than standard horizontal (45).

 

[G13_Flux]

Its KB angle is 37 iirc, which is lower than standard horizontal (45).

^wait, why is 45 degrees the horizontal? what happened to 0 degrees? tell me youre using radians.. please lol.

 

[Strong Badam]

45 is the angle most "horizontal" moves send at, due to how physics works. gravity takes place at the same time as kb, so it looks more horizontal than diagonal. fox's shine is a 0 angle for example but looks much lower due to falling speed.