Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

[Sky`]

I'd like to make one thing clear to those who say, "I main the bike now!" and "Gluttony is the way to play!"

A lot of your thoughts subsist on the idea that Gluttony's playstyle is that to be envied and copied. I personally believe that nobody should copy anybody's playstyle, and you should start becoming the "____Your name here" Wario. Though he's a good player, I'd have to say that styles like Fiction are still what's probably a dominate more effective way to play, especially against characters like DDD, MK, Snake.

And in short, just because the bike worked against Ally, if you could even say that, it in no way means that using the bike is a new form of viability. Ally played a character that could be played aggressively. Those 'bike tricks' wouldn't do any good for you vs Falco for example.

And also, the bike is not a surgical change that is going to boost Wario up in the tier list. There are many things that hinder Wario in MU's that the bike just can't fix. So before you begin to develop your bike game, be sure to perfect your ground game, as it's much more important.

Pulling out your bike on purpose many times is very disadvantageous, because you're purposely hindering yourself,and if you don't have a strong grasp of the ground game Wario provides, you're just seconds away from getting gimped.

Sooo, before you decide to look up Glut and **** on your computer screen, run to training mode and do bike ****, make sure you've got everything else down first. I promise you, that you probably don't.

 

[kaak]

I concur.

~Chair

 

[Krystedez]

I don't know how many times I've said this since I started playing well on the AiB ladder and goin to tourneys. Learn your wario before you learn your bike.

 

[Pwneroni]

I agree. When I saw Glutonny vids, the next tourney I went to I went nuts with the bike. Ended up getting gimped a ton haha. Definitely learned that the bike is a risk/reward thing now the only time I pull out the bike is when I launch the opponent offstage a pretty good distance.

Other than that I just go Kung Fu Wario ;P

 

[toobusytocare]

this is why i love sky

 

[SnackAttack]

This flips my perception upside down....

I was always told to watch videos and emulate (or at least try to) what I see....

My god.... I'm garbage in more ways than one.

 

[Krystedez]

Don't work so hard to undo what you've done, try to make what you've learned work, but at the same time figure out what you can do on your own from now on.

Copying me for instance... Lol, you'll have the bike out like 200 times during a match. AND NONE OF THEM ON ACCIDENT. Try that and then you'll see why you can't emulate other people. That's why I'm semi-wondering if I should advocate my bike guide too much... (Im still gunna finish it...maybe after MLG XD)

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[SnackAttack]

<content redacted>


That was not sarcastic.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

This flips my perception upside down....

I was always told to watch videos and emulate (or at least try to) what I see....

My god.... I'm garbage in more ways than one.

You can look at videos and learn from them. What works for Hunger isn't going to work for me because of my opponent. You can see what they're doing and add those things to your game however, it's still up to you to be able to adapt to what your opponent is doing and capitalize on their mistakes. Like if we take Masky recent vid as an example that was a great display of how Wario can avoid d3. However, you can't sit there and replicate that move for move because 1 the d3 may approach you differently and 2 that's not how Wario is played. You can see how the MU is displayed and change the way you approach the mU. If you notice the top wario none of them play the same. Wario isn't a character that follows a script or a pattern you just gotta be able to read and react to your opponent. Two aggro players Hunger & Bassem do not play the same at all. Even if you look at Masky & Blue Rogue two defensive Wario's they don't play the same. If you take someone like Krystedez & Gluttony they don't play the same. While PX was known for jab > fsmash a lot of Wario do it i've seen Blue Rogue and Jnig do it. Once aggro and one defensive. It's not you emulate them because you're not going to think like bassem or hunger or Malcolm or blue rogue or krystedez or Masky. You look at the matches see what they're doing differently from you. You ask yourself what you would do in these situations. Then you look at your vids and see how you're playing and ask yourself if you could of done anything differently.

Just to sum it up don't just watch and emulate. But question yourself question what their doing. Read your opponent and react to what they're doing.

 

[Pwneroni]

Very well said AL, i heartily agree! It's not about copying people, it's about taking small useful things and adding them to your game. Wario is an extremely versatile character, and can be played many many different ways. It's up to you to find your own style

 

[slikvik]

I never use the bike...shrug

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I never use the bike...shrug

you should start it's free damage against certain characters like d3 snake and DK.

 

[toobusytocare]

pulling bike out vs D3 sounds like a terrible idea

one grab then you're offstage aith a d3 throwing all sorts of bairs at you and you can't out run a bear (not without a chopper that is)

 

[Krystedez]

Do this:

pull out bike. Camp bike. Don't get grabbed. Don't get hit by waddles.

Profit.

 

[Pwneroni]

Risk vs reward argument. If you have a tire, it could possibly make getting in some damage a bit easier (if you do it right). The problem is safely getting a tire into your hands. If you can do it, then by all means! Just don't compromise your safety in doing so.

How good would throwing the bike upwards against a recovering D3 be? You could throw it up, then grab the ledge resulting in maybe some guaranteed damage? If he get's caught in it, you could ledgehop to Uair?

 

[SnackAttack]

Question:

What does the title mean?

 

[Sky`]

After this, therefore because of this.

 

[SnackAttack]

Is it a philosophy thing?

 

[Judo777]

Those 'bike tricks' wouldn't do any good for you vs Falco for example.

funny thing you say that because Krystedez mains the bike lol or thats what we say and he actually beat DEHF at MLG with the bike (no cgs son) ..... So i wouldnt be so quick to say that maining the bike doesn't have its advantages.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

funny thing you say that because Krystedez mains the bike lol or thats what we say and he actually beat DEHF at MLG with the bike (no cgs son) ..... So i wouldnt be so quick to say that maining the bike doesn't have its advantages.

Krsyt also said he hate's playing against falco because he can turn his bike against him ^_^.

 

[Lord Chair]

FALLACIES FALLACIES FALLACIES FALLACIES

Wario boards, stop giving me headaches.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[slikvik]

funny thing you say that because Krystedez mains the bike lol or thats what we say and he actually beat DEHF at MLG with the bike (no cgs son) ..... So i wouldnt be so quick to say that maining the bike doesn't have its advantages.

you mean that set where Dehf SD's first game and loses then 3 stocks krys 2nd game and then loses on brinstar? bike definitely had a lot to do with that win

Edit: People play the way you want. If you want to use the bike and do it well do it. If not, whatever. There is no correct playstyle. Your main goal is minimizing your opponents chances to hit you while maximizing your own. Do it however you want

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[slikvik]

Yes there is

how so? you make a decision based on what your opponent does and there are many different "correct" responses to every action

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

you mean that set where Dehf SD's first game and loses then 3 stocks krys 2nd game and then loses on brinstar? bike definitely had a lot to do with that win

Edit: People play the way you want. If you want to use the bike and do it well do it. If not, whatever. There is no correct playstyle. Your main goal is minimizing your opponents chances to hit you while maximizing your own. Do it however you want

He got CP'd and two stocked on brinstar. If you want to defend DEHF then by all means go ahead. But there's no johns when you lose 2 outta 3. If he doesn't want to get CP'd pick a better character. Please don't belittle other players accomplishments.

 

[Sky`]

funny thing you say that because Krystedez mains the bike lol or thats what we say and he actually beat DEHF at MLG with the bike (no cgs son) ..... So i wouldnt be so quick to say that maining the bike doesn't have its advantages.

you mean that set where Dehf SD's first game and loses then 3 stocks krys 2nd game and then loses on brinstar? bike definitely had a lot to do with that win

I'm not diminishing the win that he got, but I can certainly say that I've got my credentials in the Falco MU, and the Bike isn't even near the key to winning that, considering that the first 30% is a complete guessing game.

My main point, is people who think that the bike is some sort of revolutionary tactic...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRwMN_bdhT0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCmDJPek-3U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0KLeNWo7Oo

Here's me in Winners finals last week (Only to suffer from my Zex block in Grand finals. T__T)

The bike, while good, to me does not harbor the sheer overwhelming advantages that Wario has. The only thing that I think the bike is perfect for, is eliminating the start up invincibility when they lose a stock. I'm pretty sure every stock I get the bike and throw it up. Since I started playing wario I made that a habit of mine. It's almost completely safe, and not to mention if they try to get in, you can Grab them to Dthrow.

And @AlmostLegendary, you're in and out of these forums, from what I've seen Trolling. Before you discipline somebody for... just about anything, acquire some Self-Discipline.

 

[Pwneroni]

Nice matches Sky! However you didn't use the bike very notably, except when you got gimped when the bike was onstage (lol). Oh and when you threw the tire down into Catnip's tornado, that was awesome good ****. You should put up the first match so we can see it too!

What you call "no bike" Wario, I call "Kung Fu" Wario. In order to succeed, you must have strong Kung Fu. Only once you master your own mind and body, are you able to move on to training with weapons and other more complicated things.

 

[toobusytocare]

**** you guys

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Pwneroni]

It depends on the specific situation. Does the risk lead to higher reward? Such as going for that Fsmash as the opponent lands. They might perfect shield, but if you time it perfectly you can get a good chunk of damage and possibly a KO. If there is more risk, it is only worth doing if there is a good enough reward in the end. Option B would be to jump away and airdodge, causing no damage to the opponent but preventing you from taking damage.

Risk vs reward is a constant thing in smash, and your playstyle is dependent on the choices you make. Do you risk it all for the win? Or do you play it completely safe and wait for an obvious opening? Most players fall somewhere between the two extremes.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[SnackAttack]

That's a pretty good quote, MaskyMoo. I like.

 

[Dynomite]

moves that fit people's play style:

Masky: >
Krystedez: Bike (rawr, i wanted this..)
Malcolm: Up-tilt (another one i wanted)
PX: Nair
Dynomite: upB

Every wario has something thats unique about them.

 

[B.Mack]

There is a certain subset of options which should never be used, since they never win. For starters, the correct playstyle shouldn't use those. A lot of players still try things which shouldn't work.

I'd also say that when choosing between two situations with equal possible reward, but situation A has higher risk and situation B has lower risk, the correct playstyle would choose situation B. But maybe someone will argue that it's impossible for two situations to have equal possible reward.

Wario has no "useless" moves or moves which should never be used. :v
EDIT: aww man, Dynomite you use UpB? I wanted that to be my move... I demand videos displaying epic corkscrewing!

 

[Dynomite]

Wario has no "useless" moves or moves which should never be used. :v

forward roll

 

[B.Mack]

forward roll isnt a move, its a fail.

 

[Lord Chair]

Forward roll is kinda awkward. I don't think I ever actually outplayed someone by using it.

 

[Krystedez]

moves that fit people's play style:

Masky: > (???)
Krystedez: Bike + Tires (Combos and deals heavy damage)
Malcolm: Up-tilt (the famous interrupter!)
PX: Nair (interrupting cow emerges for another 20+ percent combo!)
Dynomite: Up - B (scrw u combo)
Hunger: Tires (awesome at picking up and throwing tires in any trapping position)
Blue Rogue: Fair? (really good at waiting on the opponent and punishing for damage)

Fixed with additions :D