Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

Give Megaman a voice, thats all i ask, he speaks in canon its weird he doesnt in smash

 

[Wonder Smash]

Give Megaman a voice, thats all i ask, he speaks in canon its weird he doesnt in smash

They were basing him on his NES design, so that's likely why he didn't have a voice.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Yeah, I was thinking about this too. In Smash Ultimate, I don't think most of these series are underrepresented given the context of their inclusion and state of the series at the time. Splatoon was brand new, Pikmin had seen no new developments. Villager was only added last game, so getting one new Animal Crossing character feels like suitable growth especially given the restrictive space. As a snapshot of Nintendo in 2018, they got a fair shake.

Moving forward though, if Animal Crossing / Splatoon were to be neglected it would really stand out. Pikmin is more debatable simply because Olimar covers a lot of bases on his own and can probably get a Rookie skin to represent the new game... although at this point there's no representation for Rock, Ice or Glow Pikmin. So I think if Olimar isn't sufficiently updated and/or there's no new character, that's going to start to be felt. In any case, there are a handful of series around Pikmin's scale or smaller that have justified a second character by now so I'd say it's as good a time as any. Feels like the timing might be right.

Not that it's as simple as this or that series has x amount of characters so Pikmin needs another, just that having four fairly successful games under its belt seems like more than enough to warrant it if they felt so inclined, especially after its biggest success to date. Might be a similar situation to say, Palutena's addition after the popularity of Uprising if they wanted to add Oatchi off the momentum of Pikmin 4 (or something silly like a Bulborb).

Actually speaking of Oatchi, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Moss being a 2-in-1 with Olimar now that Pikmin 4 is a thing. I mean she is canonically Olimar’s dog, and it helps represent Pikmin gameplay more tbh. I also think Shepherd and Oatchi could be super fun too with a focus mostly on the dog instead of the split giving Olimar Moss would facilitate.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t know if either party would agree to it but I think Playtonic is the perfect developer for the DKC series. They had a bit of a disappointing first game in the original Yooka-Laylee but their next game, Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair, was actually really good and comparable to Tropical Freeze. The company was founded by some of the same people that worked on the original DKC trilogy. I just think it would be an awesome callback to the old games if Nintendo and Playtonic could work out some kind of deal. Of course that all depends if Playtonic is even interested in returning to their old series and if Nintendo wants to bring them in to work on the game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think they should change one of Mega Man's taunts to his MVC taunt.

The "boogie boogie boo!"? That always felt out of character to me.

They were basing him on his NES design, so that's likely why he didn't have a voice.

Well, I was going to say he talks in the NES games too, but taking a look, I guess he really doesn't. He's got a single line in Mega Man 6. Pretty sure he's had several shows where he spoke by then, but he wasn't quite as talkative as I remember in the games until Mega Man 7.

Also Roll doesn't say anything until Mega Man 8 unless you're Japanese, which I suppose makes her the last major character to get dialogue save for characters that can't talk like Rush.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Mega Man finally does get voice acting in the next Smash... unfortunately it's the one from the English localization of MM8:

"Hey Ride-ley, why must I fight you, we are not enemies."

 

[Perkilator]

I just remembered that both Cloud and Sephiroth have plenty of colors variations in Dissidia NT that would've made for much better alts in their Smash appearances. I think they should've tried going for at least some of those with a couple of other alts thrown in for good measure.

Spoiler: Alts that would suit Cloud

1. Ex-SOLDIER, 1st Class I (default)
2. Ex-SOLDIER, 1st Class II (black)
3. Ex-SOLDIER, 1st Class III (purple)
4. Sky Soarer I (KH outfit)
5. Sky Soarer II (KH yellow)
6. Sky Soarer III (KH white)
7. Cloudy Wolf I (AC outfit w/sleeve)
8. Cloudy Wolf II (AC outfit w/o sleeve)

Spoiler: Alts that would suit Sephiroth

1. Operative of Legend I (default)
2. Operative of Legend II (white)
3. Operative of Legend III (red)
4. One-Winged Angel I (KH outfit)
5. One-Winged Angel II (KH magenta)
6. One-Winged Angel III (KH yellow)
7. Shirtless
8. Safer Sephiroth (shirtless brown)

 

[DarthEnderX]

They were basing him on his NES design, so that's likely why he didn't have a voice.

Personally, I prefer Smash's more deadpan representation more than the one in his actual games, because it fits the fact that Rock doesn't actually have emotions. Because X is the first robot that thinks independently, feels and has free will.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Mega Man finally does get voice acting in the next Smash... unfortunately it's the one from the English localization of MM8:

Oh. God. No.

Spoiler: Mega Man destroys your ear drums for a solid 20 seconds:

 

[chinkuru]

Bison as a Boss instead of a Fighter makes no sense. But otherwise, great list.

Yes, Bison has more sense as a fighter but with Chun li above him his chances are zero so unless he is a boss

 

[Oracle Link]

Speaking of nintendo stores ever noticed the suspiocous abscene of zelda action figures/ Plushies! Sure some exist true! But we reached a point were there iosnt even any/ (a lot) new classic link merch? Like why not just make Plushies / Actionfigures of links awekening link?
and Jakks released BOTW Link and Zelda 3 times in a row instead of considering Ganon, CVlassic link or just ANYONE else!
Heck even Pikmin, animal crosiing and splatoon get MUUUUCH more Love in that regard!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Personally, I prefer Smash's more deadpan representation more than the one in his actual games, because it fits the fact that Rock doesn't actually have emotions. Because X is the first robot that thinks independently, feels and has free will.

My headcannon is that while Robot Masters aren't quite like real people, they have programmed in personalities that are tailored to the job they have so that the human employees that work alongside them can communicate with them, and so they can adapt to their environment instead of just breaking whenever taken out of their work zone. This is why every single Robot Master with voice lines is written to be extremely eccentric.

For the exceptions, Mega Man and Roll were meant to mimic human children, so there's more room to play with when constructing their personalities, and presumably Dr. Light would have been improving them throughout the series so they could react to more things more realistically. Perhaps that's how he came to develop the tech that X was outfitted with in the first place. Proto Man was never finished, but IIRC was meant to be a part of a mass produced line of war robots (which ended up being Sniper Joes). As such, he's probably using a more general AI as well, but outwardly has a "stoic hero" type personality. Bass is the most one dimensional of the group, as he isn't really all that much beyond an edgy teenager with a one-track minded goal of being the one to destroy Mega Man.

EDIT: It would be fun to see a crossover between the Mega Man and Mega Man X series where the Mega Man X cast finds Robot Masters off-putting, viewing them as "almost people" due to being able to see the seams of what their programming allows. It would be a pretty interesting exploration of the world building, and Robots experiencing the uncanny valley effect when talking to other robots would be pretty funny.

 

[Sucumbio]

When Anniversary Collection first dropped on PS2 the voice acting did strike me me as being particularly cheesy. I wanted more tho like a whole ass anime series lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When Anniversary Collection first dropped on PS2 the voice acting did strike me me as being particularly cheesy. I wanted more tho like a whole ass anime series lol

Mega Man Anniversary Collection was actually my first console game. His voice didn't bother me except for the cut scene where he screams at the top of his lungs for 20 seconds.

That being said, I'd rather not be subjected to more screaming on that caliber. It might not be quite so bad in Super Smash Bros. (the death voice clip in Mega Man 8 didn't bother me), but I'm not taking any chances. Even ignoring all that though, I'd prefer Ben Diskin's portrayal.

As a side note, I recently remembered Navi Mode in the Anniversary Collection. Naming your hint system after the most notorious hint companion is absolutely hilarious.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Personally, I prefer Smash's more deadpan representation more than the one in his actual games, because it fits the fact that Rock doesn't actually have emotions. Because X is the first robot that thinks independently, feels and has free will.

This plot point is largely an invention of the Mega Man X games, and it doesn't even say that Mega Man can't feel emotions, just that he doesn't have total free will the way that a reploid does. Rock's character has always been that of a courageous yet merciful-hearted boy who volunteers to fight because has a strong sense of justice, even if it means going up against his own kind. This is how he's typically presented in the game's stories and in adapted media. It's also, roughly, the blueprint for other iterations of the character, like Geo in Starforce or .EXE in Battle Network who are often forced to fight their friends.

I had a specific quote that I wanted to share from the devs of MM11 about the nature of the character, but it's proving difficult to find right now, so instead I'll just use this one from his creator, Akira Kitamura.

Kitamura: [...] There's something sad about the image of Mega Man just standing there. There's a seriousness to characters like him, you could say. How can I put this… for me, when I see a young child playing alone, in a park or in the middle of the street, playing by himself there… there’s something so sad about that sight, it can almost bring me to tears. And there’s something similarly lonely about Mega Man

Kitamura: The heroes I used to love were always strong figures that you could look up to. They were different from the heroes of today, who are drawn more sympathetically, and who you’re supposed to have something in common with. To me, a hero embodies the “virtue” that we all have in our hearts. We all have it, but most of us are too embarrassed or scared to show it.
In that sense there’s something childlike about heroism. Heroes are the people who are proud to show that side of themselves to others. They have a lonely existence, and they will bear any burden—even when not being watched over by others—simply because it’s the right thing to do. I like heroes with that childlike purity and idealism. Someone who can still believe in what’s right, even when others says “that’s not realistic.” I think when a person encounters a hero like that in art, they can learn a lot from them. That’s the kind of hero I wanted to create in Mega Man.

...This is all to say that I actually would like it if Mega Man were a bit more expressive in Smash. Plus he has such big eyes and features that it feels like a mistake to have him almost never emote with them.

 

[Garteam]

Personally, I prefer Smash's more deadpan representation more than the one in his actual games, because it fits the fact that Rock doesn't actually have emotions. Because X is the first robot that thinks independently, feels and has free will.

Rock has emotions. He doesn't full free will, though. Mega Man 7's ending has Mega Man getting so angry that he threatens to kill Wily, who replies that a robots can't kill him because it would break the first rule of robotics. Rock hesitates (in the Japanese version) and it's unclear if Wily is correct and Mega Man can't kill humans due to being outside his code or Mega Man could have killed him but had a crisis of conscience at the last moment.

 

[Louie G.]

Actually speaking of Oatchi, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Moss being a 2-in-1 with Olimar now that Pikmin 4 is a thing. I mean she is canonically Olimar’s dog, and it helps represent Pikmin gameplay more tbh. I also think Shepherd and Oatchi could be super fun too with a focus mostly on the dog instead of the split giving Olimar Moss would facilitate.

It's a cute idea, although it might end up cluttering Olimar a bit more than needed. I'd like them to just focus on making his existing Pikmin plucking more fun and intuitive. At that point it's probably best to just start building a character around Pikmin 4's new innovations.

I'm 100% down for Shepherd and Oatchi though - I haven't played Pikmin 4 yet but I've been told Oatchi can also operate as a captain? So when I've suggested more of a team-up scenario I got the vibe from fans that it may not be necessary, but I'd definitely be curious how they would choose to design around that. That was my first impression for how he could be implemented, at least. Otherwise I just think Shepherd seems cool anyway.

 

[Gorgonzales]

It's a cute idea, although it might end up cluttering Olimar a bit more than needed. I'd like them to just focus on making his existing Pikmin plucking more fun and intuitive. At that point it's probably best to just start building a character around Pikmin 4's new innovations.

I'm 100% down for Shepherd and Oatchi though - I haven't played Pikmin 4 yet but I've been told Oatchi can also operate as a captain? So when I've suggested more of a team-up scenario I got the vibe from fans that it may not be necessary, but I'd definitely be curious how they would choose to design around that. That was my first impression for how he could be implemented, at least. Otherwise I just think Shepherd seems cool anyway.

Shepherd and Oatchi could work together, but the more I thought about it the more I'd want Oatchi to be on his own. The space-dogs are indeed capable of operating on their own as separate captains, able to whistle and throw Pikmin as good as characters with arms.

Including Shepherd or the Rookie on top of Oatchi (who likely has Pikmin clinging on him already) would be unnecessary clutter. A "Pikmin & Oatchi" moveset would keep things manageable, and I can't really think of anything a captain tagging along could really add to a potential moveset for Oatchi. They're honestly just dead weight because Oatchi can do many things the captains can't do like digging, charging forward, sniffing scent trails, jumping high, etcetera.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Hey all. After last night’s feedback, I’ve decided to try this again. Feel free to ignore this post if you want to. I’ve just put in a spoiler so it doesn’t permeate this page.

Spoiler: Revised Roster

So, I’ve taken yesterday’s feedback, and wanted to explain this roster a bit better.

Spoiler: Starting Roster (31 characters)

I decided to construct a starting roster, before you unlock all characters. 31 was a decent number, as I didn’t want to make the Miis unlockable, and to have a nice balance of series here. Not much to say here.

Spoiler: Full Base Roster (72 characters)

I’ve tried to keep as many characters as I can, while also not wanting the roster to get too big.

So, the echoes, which it seems the collective Smash fandom abhors with a burning passion.

Funky Kong I thought would be a neat option. With no K. Rool, or DKC game in sight, I figured a lower-priority character ought to do it.

Pneuma gives some depth to Pyra/Mythra. I talked about this in the SSB6 creation thread.

Octoling is a classic clone, with different weapons, but similar functions. Different enough, but still similar.

Overall, I think the distribution here is better compared to before. The newcomers aren’t as ‘hype’ as Ultimate, but it’s good to show off Nintendo’s more recent endeavours, plus some fan demand. I didn’t just want this to be Ultimate AGAIN.

Zelda retains Toon Link, which helps. Xenoblade double dipped, and Animal Crossing and Splatoon get a new face each.

Newcomers:
83. Paper Mario
84. Impa
85. Ring Fit Trainee
86. Noah
80e. Pneuma
87. Isaac
88. Chun-Li
64e. Octoling
89. Dr. Eggman
90. Meowscarda
91. Bandana Dee
92. Tom Nook
93. Alear
02e. Funky Kong
94. Rayman
95. Waluigi

I recommend someone set up a thread dedicated to mock-up rosters like this. People would like to submit their ideas, predictions, and wishlists, and I feel like it might get boring having to keep posting it here.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yes, Bison has more sense as a fighter but with Chun li above him his chances are zero so unless he is a boss

That doesn't make sense. Bosses take almost as much work as a Fighter. If they're willing to do the work to make him a Boss, they could just make him a Fighter.

If you're going through all the trouble of giving a human-sized fighter an entire moveset, there's no reason to NOT make them a Fighter.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Bosses take almost as much work as a Fighter.

gonna need a source on this

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Bosses take almost as much work as a Fighter.

Says who? Bosses don’t have nearly as many moves/abilities and animations that a fighter does, nor do they have the thousands of variables you have to account for that a playable fighter does.

I can understanding thinking this for a traditional fighting game, but Smash is built different.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Says who? Bosses don’t have nearly as many moves/abilities and animations that a fighter does

That's not true. Most of the Bosses movesets literally map to the same controls as a Fighter when accessed in debug modes.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Actually speaking of Oatchi, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Moss being a 2-in-1 with Olimar now that Pikmin 4 is a thing. I mean she is canonically Olimar’s dog, and it helps represent Pikmin gameplay more tbh. I also think Shepherd and Oatchi could be super fun too with a focus mostly on the dog instead of the split giving Olimar Moss would facilitate.

I'm a little late on this, but I like this idea too. That said I think Olimar is fine as is, and instead Rookie could just have a Leafling alt that rides around on Moss instead of Oatchi, since the Leafling look is a style you can unlock and play as in Pikmin 4.

 

[Gorgonzales]

That's not true. Most of the Bosses movesets literally map to the same controls as a Fighter when accessed in debug modes.

Okay? Doesn't account for the fact that most bosses don't have animations for getting hit/launched/anything involved with taking damage. Movement is also simplified, with them having set animations for it and the devs not needing to worry about their weight or movement speed or interactions with the hundreds of other stages in the game. They don't even need to balance them against different matchups, they just need to be beatable by most of the cast since they all can beat them more or less the same way.

Just because boss moves are mapped to controller inputs (presumably for debugging only) doesn't mean they take almost as much work as a fighter. I seriously doubt that.

 

[superprincess]

That's not true. Most of the Bosses movesets literally map to the same controls as a Fighter when accessed in debug modes.

And? That doesn't mean they take the same amount of time and effort to develop as a fighter. Mapping their attacks to player controls is just there for testing purposes. Bosses aren't playable in versus battles and lack a lot of animations a fighter would have, like entrances, victories, taunts, idles, item grabbing/throwing, swimming, and more. They also aren't balanced against literally every character. They just have to be beatable.

EDIT: ninja'd

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

This plot point is largely an invention of the Mega Man X games, and it doesn't even say that Mega Man can't feel emotions, just that he doesn't have total free will the way that a reploid does. Rock's character has always been that of a courageous yet merciful-hearted boy who volunteers to fight because has a strong sense of justice, even if it means going up against his own kind. This is how he's typically presented in the game's stories and in adapted media. It's also, roughly, the blueprint for other iterations of the character, like Geo in Starforce or .EXE in Battle Network who are often forced to fight their friends.

I had a specific quote that I wanted to share from the devs of MM11 about the nature of the character, but it's proving difficult to find right now, so instead I'll just use this one from his creator, Akira Kitamura.


...This is all to say that I actually would like it if Mega Man were a bit more expressive in Smash. Plus he has such big eyes and features that it feels like a mistake to have him almost never emote with them.

I feel like I remember which quote you're talking about, looking it up, is it this one?

“For me,” Tsuchiya said, “I think it’s having that iconic blue character represent that hero that every kid wants to be. I think that’s what really represents Mega Man.”

On the topic, I think even in the confines of the NES depiction, Mega Man should be much more expressive.

In this OVA, Mega Man is very deliberately drawn based on the classic Inafune-style art which was seen in promotional material and the covers for the games in Japan, with similar childish and exaggerated proportions to his depiction in Smash but with much more freedom to animate and show some personality. I feel like the Smash depiction really misses a lot of the original character's charm and is weird in the context of Mega Man having always had dialogue and a range of facial expressions. I definitely feel a better middle ground could be struck.

 

[ninjahmos]

They should bring back Target Test and use this theme:

I’d also love it they brought back Board the Platforms and Race to the Finish.

 

[SharkLord]

This just reminds me that Warioware is one of the series portals on the Japanese Nintendo website, and has been for a while.

They keep making the games, so clearly they see something in them lol. I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see Ashley get in.

On the topic, I would say it's really only Splatoon that feels "weird it only has this amount" given how important it is to Nintendo, but even that's sort of in hindsight, since Splatoon 1 was the only game the dev team had to base on for Ultimate, and that was a successful game relative to a dying console. I think it was Splatoon 2's massive success that really cemented the series and overtime catapulted it to one of Nintendo's core franchises. You could argue for Pikmin, but it's certainly much less consistent than Splatoon.

A bit late but I think it's curious that the faces of Fire Emblem are Marth, Ike, and Lyn instead of any of the more modern installments. Going off Tom Nook and Isabelle using their 3DS designs instead of the New Horizons ones, and Splatoon 1 Inkling instead of any of the Switch designs, this was probably set up very early into the Switch era and they bother to change them later on, but it's still interesting to note.

Also Tom Nook and Lyn being the only characters on here to not be playable in any way in Smash. Not sure what that says about their chances but it's still noteworthy

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Mega Man finally does get voice acting in the next Smash... unfortunately it's the one from the English localization of MM8:

"Hey Ride-ley, why must I fight you, we are not enemies."

Dont threaten me with a good time.

 

[Dinoman96]

The Japanese Fire Emblem website there is interesting because it actually has an entire page dedicated to all the Fire Emblem characters that physically appear in Smash Bros. Ultimate...including the assist trophies.

CHARACTERS [『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』参戦・登場キャラクター] | ファイアーエムブレムワールド【FIRE EMBLEM WORLD】

シリーズの中で『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』に参戦・登場するキャラクターについてご紹介します。

www.nintendo.com

So you have Tiki, Black Knight and Lyn listed alongside the playable crew.

 

[SharkLord]

The Japanese Fire Emblem website there is interesting because it actually has an entire page dedicated to all the Fire Emblem characters that physically appear in Smash Bros. Ultimate...including the assist trophies.

CHARACTERS [『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』参戦・登場キャラクター] | ファイアーエムブレムワールド【FIRE EMBLEM WORLD】

シリーズの中で『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』に参戦・登場するキャラクターについてご紹介します。

www.nintendo.com

So you have Tiki, Black Knight and Lyn listed alongside the playable crew.

Aaah... Google Translate, my beloved

 

[HyperSomari64]

Mega Man finally does get voice acting in the next Smash... unfortunately it's the one from the English localization of MM8:

"Hey Ride-ley, why must I fight you, we are not enemies."

If Doctor Light was in this game, he should have the MM8 Elmeresque voice.
Doctor Wahwee

 

[Perkilator]

Aaah... Google Translate, my beloved
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View attachment 389610
View attachment 389611

Byleth is so good, the website listed them twice

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Byleth is so good, the website listed them twice

It's because they have different names for each gender in Japan.

 

[Ivander]

A bit late but I think it's curious that the faces of Fire Emblem are Marth, Ike, and Lyn instead of any of the more modern installments. Going off Tom Nook and Isabelle using their 3DS designs instead of the New Horizons ones, and Splatoon 1 Inkling instead of any of the Switch designs, this was probably set up very early into the Switch era and they bother to change them later on, but it's still interesting to note.

Also Tom Nook and Lyn being the only characters on here to not be playable in any way in Smash. Not sure what that says about their chances but it's still noteworthy

Probably because Ike and Lyn were voted the most popular Male and Female characters in the first Choose your Legends Ballot. And the first CYL Ballot was in 2017 which was a year away from Smash Bros Ultimate's release year. Sure, CYL2 took place in 2018, the same year as SSBU, but obviously, none of the CYL2 winners were in Smash Ultimate to promote them.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I still want to see a mode where a player gets the option to play as a boss while three to four other players pick regular fighters and have to defeat them.

You'd probably have to rebalance the bosses a bit to make it a fair challenge for both sides, but if it's done well I think it'd honestly be pretty fun.

 

[dream1ng]

Shoutout to Phosphorus Lyn for her impressive Smash popularity. Maybe it doesn't seem like that much compared to like Waluigi and Isaac, but it's
1) stuck around despite her always getting deconfirmed towards the beginning and with her being severely "outdated" in terms of new FE reps - meaning she really doesn't have a chance outside of popularity (or a new game)
2) so enduring that despite all we already have, she's basically the sole FE character the non-FE crowd wouldn't be (that) mad about getting.

That's no small feat.

Personally, I wish she would've been the one selected for Brawl. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Ike, I like him fine, I get why he was picked, but she was my preference. Also I think not having Ike would've still resulted in a slower, stronger sword moveset probably going to Chrom in 4.

 

[Ivander]

2) so enduring that despite all we already have, she's basically the sole FE character the non-FE crowd wouldn't be (that) mad about getting.

You give them too much credit.

Edit: Still, I think Veronica could be another contender for a character that non-FE fans might be a bit more forgiving to since she would be mainly a pure spellcaster(and a dark spellcaster at that too, something we don't really have any of in Smash aside from Ganondorf and maybe Bayonetta) instead of another sword user.

 

[Slime Scholar]

I feel like I remember which quote you're talking about, looking it up, is it this one?

it wasn’t this one actually. Still interesting insight though!

The one I’m looking for talks about how Mega Man carries a sort of sadness with him, fighting other robots who are very much like his brothers, and that this sadness transforms him from a fun robot character into a more interesting hero with a hint of coolness. It was something like that. Still can’t find it even using quotations in my search. Oh well. I think the point’s been made.