Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[RileyXY1]

I think it's more that they didnt give enough of a **** to put the names in rather than any restriction they had placed on them

They've never done that for a Spirit before. And considering that the rest of the new Spirits are all from primarily E-rated franchises which did have their franchise names on them it's clear that something's up here.

 

[ninjahmos]

That would really limit a lot of popular options but it’s possible. I’ve said it before but I think it might be time to move to a slightly higher age rating if it’s at the point that it’s limiting roster selection.

They could go back to the T rating that Melee and Brawl had.

 

[Kirbeh]

It's mostly just an ESRB problem, as this whole issue is because of a new ESRB policy that bans games from referencing other games of a higher rating, something CERO doesn't have. It's created a lot of issues for Smash, such as Mii costumes from primarily M-rated franchises not being allowed to list what series they're from in Smash reveal trailers and now the 13 Sentinels, Noah and Mio, and Zagreus Spirits do not even list what franchise or game they were from, a first for Smash. And it's an issue they have to address or else they will be severely limited in what characters they can add and they would be forced to completely cut certain franchises from Smash like Metroid, Earthbound, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, and more. They would be forced to either elevate Smash itself to a higher rating or completely stop releasing the series in North America entirely.

I'm aware, but in such cases they could just do exactly what they did for Ultimate and just not name drop particular series if necessary. They're not going to cancel the release in such a lucrative market (markets in this case as the same change was made in the UK) over something like this.

And if really necessary they would sooner cut the M rated content and stick to T rated games as their maximum. This idea that Nintendo would just give up on overseas releases is baffling.

The ESRB's ARC guidelines changed to fall in with the IARC.

Nintendo, being an entity that publishes games worldwide is going to be aware of this and take it into account when developing future titles.

Are you honestly saying that you think they'd just develop a project plan that completely ignores the markets they regularly work within and halfway through development just go "Oh I forgor, guess we gotta cancel the international release"?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I think it's more that they didnt give enough of a **** to put the names in rather than any restriction they had placed on them

That....makes no sense.

So they would care about making sure Mario, Zelda, Pikmin, Pokémon, and Splatoon gets listed...but **** Xenoblade in particular?

Conversely, they don't care if 13 Sentinels or Hades gets listed, but they'll be damned if they don't list Power Pros?


With the common thread between the ones that did vs. the ones that didn't being source material ratings?

Nah, there's something more than just "they didn't feel like it".

 

[Wonder Smash]

To be perfectly fair though, I don't think the firearms are necessarily the issue. Joker and Bayo both use pistols already and while there's P5 lore to explain away how Joker's isn't real, I doubt it hardly matters to the ratings board. If it looks just like a real gun and gets used like one, it likely counts. The context won't be known to anyone that hasn't played P5.

Plus, as I and others have mentioned before, including how Smash already handles them there are other examples of allowing characters to use firearms while being stylized enough to be in lower rated games like Marvel vs Capcom, etc.

The main issues that i think GTA has are the subject matter and themes of the games along with the constant irl controversies associated with both the brand and even Rockstar as a whole.

It may look and get used like a real gun but I think the supernatural elements behind them makes them much more different from just being a regular gun. Without them, it's a no-go for Sakurai.

Though, I'm not saying that that's the only issue with GTA when it comes to Smash. There are other things to consider. Just that that is also one of them. It's not a "complete non-issue".

 

[Kirbeh]

It may look and get used like a real gun but I think the supernatural elements behind them makes them much more different from just being a regular gun. Without them, it's a no-go for Sakurai.

Though, I'm not saying that's the only issue with GTA when it comes to Smash. I do think it's one of them, though.

Thing is, Sakurai wasn't even part of the conversation up until his point, it was the ratings boards. The actual context of Joker's gun doesn't make any difference to the ratings boards, to them it's still a gun.

Also, Bayo does in fact use real guns and Sakurai was perfectly fine with that. Scarborough Fair and Love is Blue are heavily stylized, but they shoot live rounds and are based on the Derringer (confirmed) and Mauser C96 (unconfirmed, but extremely similar in design so it's probable) respectively.

And the reason Snake likely doesn't use guns is because many of the firearms in MGS are real world guns as opposed to being heavily inspired made-up ones. Most guns in GTA or even other series like RE use made up firearms.

Sakurai's likely not the one to take issue with these things, he's just trying to work within the bounds of what Nintendo signs off on and what CERO allows for.

 

[ninjahmos]

Y'know, I think Smash could use a good beat 'em up rep. (E.G. Kunio & Riki, Billy & Jimmy, Haggar, Axel, Blaze)

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Y'know, I think Smash could use a good beat 'em up rep. (E.G. Kunio & Riki, Billy & Jimmy, Haggar, Axel, Blaze)

Gotchu fam

 

[Kirbeh]

Y'know, I think Smash could use a good beat 'em up rep. (E.G. Kunio & Riki, Billy & Jimmy, Haggar, Axel, Blaze)

If I could have my way we'd be flooded with beat 'em up characters.

I want the og trio from Streets of Rage.
The Golden Axe trio.
The og 3 + Maki from Final Fight.
A composite Battletoads character.
The main lads and ladies of Kunio Kun/River City Girls.
Captain Commando
The Amazon, Sorceress and Elf from Dragon's Crown
Throw in Odin sphere and Princess Crown if you want to count them too. I wish Vanillaware stood a fair chance outside of just the Sentinels spirits

 

[Capybara Gaming]

That....makes no sense.

So they would care about making sure Mario, Zelda, Pikmin, Pokémon, and Splatoon gets listed...but **** Xenoblade in particular?

Conversely, they don't care if 13 Sentinels or Hades gets listed, but they'll be damned if they don't list Power Pros?


With the common thread between the ones that did vs. the ones that didn't being source material ratings?

Nah, there's something more than just "they didn't feel like it".

Not really related to the rest of the conversation but I'll be damned if this **** doesn't bother my OCD.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Not really related to the rest of the conversation but I'll be damned if this **** doesn't bother my OCD.

Could be worse.
The last Spirit set could have left the row incomplete or made an extra row for a single Spirit :V

 

[Wonder Smash]

Thing is, Sakurai wasn't even part of the conversation up until his point, it was the ratings boards. The actual context of Joker's gun doesn't make any difference to the ratings boards, to them it's still a gun.

Also, Bayo does in fact use real guns and Sakurai was perfectly fine with that. Scarborough Fair and Love is Blue are heavily stylized, but they shoot live rounds and are based on the Derringer (confirmed) and Mauser C96 (unconfirmed, but extremely similar in design so it's probable) respectively.

And the reason Snake likely doesn't use guns is because many of the firearms in MGS are real world guns as opposed to being heavily inspired made-up ones. Most guns in GTA or even other series like RE use made up firearms.

Sakurai's likely not the one to take issue with these things, he's just trying to work within the bounds of what Nintendo signs off on and what CERO allows for.

But isn't the Derringer a much smaller gun? Also, Bayonetta's guns also have supernatural effects behind them. They're infused with her powers, so there's more to her shots than just bullets.

For the GTA characters, they don't have those effects. They truly are just bullets and unlike the case with explosions, there's no toon effects to make them work. Now, I'm not sure if ratings is really all of Nintendo or Sakurai's concern but staying true to the original design is and when these things not only are meant to work exactly like real life weapons but also being from the kind of the series they're from, all of that is one big issue when you take that into consideration.

Also, Sakurai may not have been part of that conversation of initially but he clearly went along with that and I don't think he said anything on it since.

Y'know, I think Smash could use a good beat 'em up rep. (E.G. Kunio & Riki, Billy & Jimmy, Haggar, Axel, Blaze)

I've been saying the same thing for a long time now.

Bring on Kunio & Riki, Billy & Jimmy!

 

[Gengar84]

Y'know, I think Smash could use a good beat 'em up rep. (E.G. Kunio & Riki, Billy & Jimmy, Haggar, Axel, Blaze)

The Battletoads will always be my number one pick but there are a lot of great options. I also enjoyed Streets of Rage 4 so I’d be down for a SoR character. I loved Battletoads & Double Dragon and played a couple other Double Dragon games so they’d be cool too.

 

[Stratos]

Just because a character comes from an M rated video game and comes as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series doesn't necessarily mean that the Super Smash Bros. series will have content that isn't kid friendly, they may well skip any content that is inappropriate for children, which they are already known to do. Simply put, can a character from an M rated video game come as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series with no violent scene, no swearing, or anything else that isn't kid friendly.

 

[cashregister9]

I'm just gonna say for M rated series that probably would have to be censored in smash

One man has had multiple nintendo exclusives

 

[Geno Boost]

we always speak about cut character in the next smash game but how about the stages do you think all can be kept that were in ultimate at least the Nintendo ones?

 

[Kirbeh]

But isn't the Derringer a much smaller gun? Also, Bayonetta's guns also have supernatural effects behind them. They're infused with her powers, so there's more to her shots than just bullets.

Correct. While it's based on the Derringer, they enlarged and changed a few features along with adding stylish flourishes like the red coloration and gems.

For the GTA characters, they don't have those effects. They truly are just bullets and unlike the case with explosions, there's no toon effects to make them work. Now, I'm not sure if ratings is really all of Nintendo or Sakurai's concern but staying true to the original design is and when these things not only are meant to work exactly like real life weapons but also being from the kind of the series they're from, all of that is one big issue when you take that into consideration.

That was part of my point actually. They can take the same approach to these weapons that they've already done in Smash or like in other series like Marvel vs Capcom. Look no further than the UMvC3 versions of Chris, Jill, Wesker, Dante, etc. You can make the shots stylized even if they aren't magic enhanced like Bayo's or "fake" like Joker's. It's a creative liberty that serves to benefit their inclusion without compromising on the design entirely. It's entirely doable whether the series in question is RE, Doom, or yes, even GTA. (And again, it likely didn't work for Snake in Brawl because real firearms require additional licensing. MGS isn't the problem, it's the trademarks and licensing for the real-world firearms.)

GTA's problem as stated before is one of themes and brand image.

Also, Sakurai may not have been part of that conversation of initially but he clearly went along with that and I don't think he said anything on it since.

Given that Sakurai deals with CERO directly, and as he's the actual director, he most definitely was part of the conversation. His silence on particular matters could be for any number of reasons. Not every detail of development is something he may be willing or allowed to disclose. And while he's complained about dealings with CERO before, he still has to comply to their rules. He may very well simply not think it's worth continually pressing the matter publicly.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm just gonna say for M rated series that probably would have to be censored in smash

One man has had multiple nintendo exclusives

Good thing he's already had history with being censored on a Nintendo platform.

Enjoy his stage: A suspiciously strip club-shaped loading bay for a Duke Burger.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I'm just gonna say for M rated series that probably would have to be censored in smash

One man has had multiple nintendo exclusives

Fun Fact: Senran Kagura started on the 3DS.
No, there will not be a SK character in Smash.

 

[Kirbeh]

Fun Fact: Senran Kagura started on the 3DS.
No, there will not be a SK character in Smash.

More than likely not, but I think it'd be fun. Though I don't think you could have an actual conversation about the series here.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Y'know, I think Smash could use a good beat 'em up rep. (E.G. Kunio & Riki, Billy & Jimmy, Haggar, Axel, Blaze)

Kunio should be a Fighter.
Riki should be his Echo.
Billy & Jimmy should be Mii Brawler costumes.
Abobo should be an AT.

we always speak about cut character in the next smash game but how about the stages do you think all can be kept that were in ultimate at least the Nintendo ones?

I mean, if they cut characters, they're probably going to cut stages too.

But hopefully, they don't cut either.

 

[Gorgonzales]

we always speak about cut character in the next smash game but how about the stages do you think all can be kept that were in ultimate at least the Nintendo ones?

With stages, I'd much, much rather have new ones over the old ones. I don't really care that much for returning stages, you could have just 10 returning stages and I'd be happy with that.

Some factors for this reasoning:

1. Ultimate really didn't introduce that many new stages, but it did bring back most of the old ones. Which is cool, but I'd want the next game to focus on new material instead of trying to hold on to all these stages forever. It'll make the game more distinct from Ultimate anyhow.

2. Only around half of Ultimate's stages are actually fun to play on. For every Fountain of Dreams, Spirit Train, or Gamer; ...there's a Hanenbow, 75m, or Paper Mario. It's quantity over quality.

3. There are so many iconic or interesting locations that haven't been made into stages yet and I'd love to see make it. The potential is defintiely there but it feels like it's rarely capitalized upon, and if half of the stages next game are returning I'd roll my eyes.

I would much rather have a stage list of 30 carefully-curated, lovingly crafted, visually distinct, fun stages than the bloated over 100 stages we have now where over half of Mario's stages are slightly different grassy fields.

Do I think all of the previous stages could be kept? Sure, Ultimate did the heavy lifting of giving them a glow up. It's certainly possible.
Do I want all of the previous stages to be kept?...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

we always speak about cut character in the next smash game but how about the stages do you think all can be kept that were in ultimate at least the Nintendo ones?

If it's a copy paste job most of them can come back i assume.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Kunio should be a Fighter.
Riki should be his Echo.
Billy & Jimmy should be Mii Brawler costumes.
Abobo should be an AT.

I mean, if they cut characters, they're probably going to cut stages too.

But hopefully, they don't cut either.

Oh, come on! Why do you have to do Billy and Jimmy like that?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

With stages, I'd much, much rather have new ones over the old ones. I don't really care that much for returning stages, you could have just 10 returning stages and I'd be happy with that.

Some factors for this reasoning:

1. Ultimate really didn't introduce that many new stages, but it did bring back most of the old ones. Which is cool, but I'd want the next game to focus on new material instead of trying to hold on to all these stages forever. It'll make the game more distinct from Ultimate anyhow.

2. Only around half of Ultimate's stages are actually fun to play on. For every Fountain of Dreams, Spirit Train, or Gamer; ...there's a Hanenbow, 75m, or Paper Mario. It's quantity over quality.

3. There are so many iconic or interesting locations that haven't been made into stages yet and I'd love to see make it. The potential is defintiely there but it feels like it's rarely capitalized upon, and if half of the stages next game are returning I'd roll my eyes.

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I would much rather have a stage list of 30 carefully-curated, lovingly crafted, visually distinct, fun stages than the bloated over 100 stages we have now where over half of Mario's stages are slightly different grassy fields.

Do I think all of the previous stages could be kept? Sure, Ultimate did the heavy lifting of giving them a glow up. It's certainly possible.
Do I want all of the previous stages to be kept?...

View attachment 387124

Nah, I’d rather have all the old stages back. There’s a lot of wacky and fun stages that the Smash team would NEVER make today like Termina Bay, Rainbow Cruise, and Icicle Mountain. I’m more of a gameplay over aesthetics guy personally. The whole game could be filled with Grassy Plain Mario stages but if the stages are wild and fun then I’m completely ok with it.

I’m exaggerating of course, I would love to mix it up, but I’m exaggerating because I feel like saying over half aren’t fun is very disingenuous. I’d say a solid 90% are a hell of a lot of fun to pay on especially casually.

Genuinely, though there’s a massive spread of different stages with different lay outs and different quirks that I know the team would never do again because people complain about them and I could care less about another battlefield shaped stage but the design is pretty. I’m in it for the chaos. Gimme back my Pokefloats.

 

[ScrubReborn]

I appreciated how many stages Ultimate brought back; hell I even wish they did "Everywhere is Here!", wheter through DLC or otherwise, even including **** like Meta Crystal and skins for every previous Battlefield/Final Destination. Imagine that at E3 after they showed the characters.

There's many old stages I hope become series regulars from here, but assuming next game isn't Ultimate Deluxe, I hope we don't get like, 90% old stages again,
I wanna see much more than 4-5 new stages in base and I'm fine with chucking out a lot of the old **** for it. And I'd like to say I'm pretty lax with stage layouts for casual and competitive stages. Hell I like **** like Palutena's Temple. Just please, minimize autoscroll stages. I can really do without most of them.

(If we do get Ultimate Deluxe though? Everywhere and anywhere is here babee)

 

[Geno Boost]

speaking of stages there are cut stages that deserve to return
-Pac-maze and Rainbow Road obviously very iconic in gaming
-Phyrosphere they should simply just remove Ridley fight from it because even without Ridley the stages does have other gimmick
-Jungle Hijinx which either they could strict it from being a shape shifting stage option or just simply cut the back layout from being accessible and repurpose the barrels to launch like in kongo jungle stage
-Meta Crystal has unique layout and very memorable it’s a pretty good legal stage
-Woolly world has its own charm as it’s made out of wool and can interact with physics on it
-Pokefloat is a strange one I feel it should come back as something else like from Pokémon Dash and using many Hot Air Balloon Pokémons for it
-Miiverse stage if splatoon on switch you can still post fanart and be viewed on many location then it shouldn’t be impossible to bring that functionality to smash again specifically for that stage

Nah, I’d rather have all the old stages back. There’s a lot of wacky and fun stages that the Smash team would NEVER make today like Termina Bay, Rainbow Cruise, and Icicle Mountain. I’m more of a gameplay over aesthetics guy personally. The whole game could be filled with Grassy Plain Mario stages but if the stages are wild and fun then I’m completely ok with it.

I’m exaggerating of course, I would love to mix it up, but I’m exaggerating because I feel like saying over half aren’t fun is very disingenuous. I’d say a solid 90% are a hell of a lot of fun to pay on especially casually.

Genuinely, though there’s a massive spread of different stages with different lay outs and different quirks that I know the team would never do again because people complain about them and I could care less about another battlefield shaped stage but the design is pretty. I’m in it for the chaos. Gimme back my Pokefloats.

True a lot of old stages are unique and have unique gimmick I would prefer them to stay for that reason

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, while people here wanted” “Everywhere is here”, I honestly wanted “Everything is here”, as in all items from the past games.

…But not necessarily all Pokémon or Assist Trophies.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Wish they would make more wacky fun stages again like the old days but incorporate that whole "Background character cameo's" thing that Ultimate's stages did.

those Ultimate stages feel more lively by having characters from their respective series watching the fight but their layouts left a lot to be desired.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Oh, come on! Why do you have to do Billy and Jimmy like that?

Because they overlap heavily with Kunio & Riki.

 

[ninjahmos]

Speaking of older stages, there are a couple of certain stages that I myself would like to become series regulars, like the Hyrule Temple (I mean, I guess it IS, at this point). Not just because of the music, but because of how open-ended it is, compared to most Melee stages.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Speaking of older stages, there are a couple of certain stages that I myself would like to become series regulars, like the Hyrule Temple. Not just because of the music, but because of how vast it is, compared to most Melee stages.

Oh Temple should absolutely be a mainstay stage along the likes of Battlefield and FD. It's the perfect design for a big stage and it's truly timeless. It's not too big, not too small, has a lot of distinct areas and is very well-received by the community.

If BF and FD are the competitive mainstays, Temple should be the big stage / casual mainstay. It's that good, and if I had to choose one stage to bring back for the next game (assuming that game has BF or FD equivalents), it's Temple. You can get your PS2 and Kalos layouts with different themes, but Temple nailed the big stage design on the first draft and it would be weird to replace it with something kinda-similiar-but-not-really.

I would like it if every new game with Temple gave it its own visual flair, too. For example, a Temple that takes place during Autumn would be sweet.

 

[dream1ng]

Y'know, I think Smash could use a good beat 'em up rep. (E.G. Kunio & Riki, Billy & Jimmy, Haggar, Axel, Blaze)

get ready for Kiryu

 

[Wonder Smash]

Because they overlap heavily with Kunio & Riki.

They can share a slot.

 

[ninjahmos]

Maybe this is just me, but I kinda wish Smash music & remixes would start using Roland Sound Canvas again. Y'know, in the style of Shogo Sakai (and probably Hirokazu Ando).

It just gave Smash its own distinct, recognizable soundfont.

 

[dream1ng]

They can share a slot.

Bimmy and Jimmy would be lucky to be costumes

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

get ready for Kiryu

I like this man. Get this man a medal.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Bimmy and Jimmy would be lucky to be costumes

A playable appearance sure can't be ruled out.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

speaking of stages there are cut stages that deserve to return
-Pac-maze and Rainbow Road obviously very iconic in gaming
-Phyrosphere they should simply just remove Ridley fight from it because even without Ridley the stages does have other gimmick
-Jungle Hijinx which either they could strict it from being a shape shifting stage option or just simply cut the back layout from being accessible and repurpose the barrels to launch like in kongo jungle stage
-Meta Crystal has unique layout and very memorable it’s a pretty good legal stage
-Woolly world has its own charm as it’s made out of wool and can interact with physics on it
-Pokefloat is a strange one I feel it should come back as something else like from Pokémon Dash and using many Hot Air Balloon Pokémons for it
-Miiverse stage if splatoon on switch you can still post fanart and be viewed on many location then it shouldn’t be impossible to bring that functionality to smash again specifically for that stage

True a lot of old stages are unique and have unique gimmick I would prefer them to stay for that reason

You forgot Orbital gate assault! I still don't get why they cut this stage. My only guess is that maybe the stage was too long to load for Stage morph.

Speaking of older stages, there are a couple of certain stages that I myself would like to become series regulars, like the Hyrule Temple (I mean, I guess it IS, at this point). Not just because of the music, but because of how open-ended it is, compared to most Melee stages.

I think what makes Temple really a timeless stage is that despite being based on Zelda 2, it's actually pretty "generic" but in a good way. It feels like you could bring it back every time and it wouldn't feel out of place, unlike some other franchise like Windy hill zone that feels kind of odd now that the Lost worlds hype has died and we didn't get a Mania or Forces stage.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well, while people here wanted” “Everywhere is here”, I honestly wanted “Everything is here”, as in all items from the past games.

EVERY[ONE/WHERE/THING/MODE/SONG] IS HERE!