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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

SpecterFlower

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
851
Lucario made sense even back with Brawl. Back in the day he was chosen his movie was very popular and well recieved and he himself was the most popular DP Pokemon along with just being very popular overall. In fact, he was highly speculated for the game due to those facts, especially after Munchlax was confirmed as a Pokeball Pokemon showing that DP mons were on the table. The only reason those facts gets downplayed is because Mewtwo got cut and got him saddled with unfortunate negativity of being his 'replacement', so many fans try to pretend he was a forced choice when before he was probably one of the top mons people were throwing around.

As for Incineroar, he didn't hit it off as well as Lucario, but he's still a very popular Pokemon, especially in Japan. Anecdotally, he also has gotten a fanbase due to his playstyle and personality winning many fans over, so he wasn't completely dismissed and did provide something that many fans enjoy.
yeah.

that's kinda what i mean, incenroar has a fanbase but every smash character has a fanbase just by being in the game, that's not a special feat.

but lucario as a choice ages much better than incenroar as a choice,(even if lucarios design is tragic and incenroars is one of the best) starters will always feel promotional and willl do pretty bad job of repping all pokemon has to offer as they are oftentimes pretty normal. pokmoen already has like a roster thats half gen 1 with way too much type overlap.
 

Noipoi

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eh yeah its true tinkaton is more popular, at least in the west,

honestly tinkaton is probably the most popular non starter/ legendary in a long time like since lucario or wooloo maybe. however in japan they dont get the same love and meowscarada is def more popular there.

but imo tinkaton would be better anyway, more interesting moveset potential and as a non start it wont feel aged.

incenroar felt dated choice wise on launch, lucario still feels like a choice that makes sense for modern day but eh thats probably just me. it feels like those dated choices are the most likely to be cut going forward though.
Incineroar's actually become a bit of a big deal recently. Not Greninja or Charizard levels of big, of course, but he's got a bit of notoriety within the fandom. And the company seems to like pushing him these days.

Maybe he wasn't a very relevant pick upon Ultimate's launch, but time has been kind to the tiger.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2024
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Questioning my existence while asleep
Lucario made sense even back with Brawl. Back in the day he was chosen his movie was very popular and well recieved and he himself was the most popular DP Pokemon along with just being very popular overall. In fact, he was highly speculated for the game due to those facts, especially after Munchlax was confirmed as a Pokeball Pokemon showing that DP mons were on the table. The only reason those facts gets downplayed is because Mewtwo got cut and got him saddled with unfortunate negativity of being his 'replacement', so many fans try to pretend he was a forced choice when before he was probably one of the top mons people were throwing around.

As for Incineroar, he didn't hit it off as well as Lucario, but he's still a very popular Pokemon, especially in Japan. Anecdotally, he also has gotten a fanbase due to his playstyle and personality winning many fans over, so he wasn't completely dismissed and did provide something that many fans enjoy.

Was there something in here you were quoting me about then edited?
 

Wonder Smash

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Messages
1,990
Here’s a thought.

I feel like Smash could use a little more SEGA representation, especially considering their long history and past rivalry with Nintendo. SEGA has plenty of characters that they could pick for Smash. (E.G. Shadow, Kiryu, Akira, NiGHTS)

I honestly think it’d be pretty cool to see Phantasy Star Online in Smash…

Oh, and generally, I think Smash could use some more Sonic representation, especially in terms of music.

Any SEGA characters you guys would like to see in Smash?
I say, maybe a Shin Megami Tensei character if we're being technical.

I'm more interested in seeing a SEGA equivalent to Smash Bros, though. Specifically, if this happens:

SEGA All-Stars Brawl.jpg
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,870
Xenoblade has two characters dude, it doesn't have that much representation. Sounds to me like you're just fishing for a reason to hate on Xenoblade
I don't have to fish for "I want to see more new franchises". Get over yourself.

Alright, so here's a challenge: try creating a 50-man roster but the characters have to have had a game on Switch during its lifespan (NSO doesn't count but retro collections/ports do).
Jesus dude! That's like homework!

I dunno, a bunch of returning characters, then add:
Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden: Master Collection]
Arthur [Ghosts 'n Goblins Resurrection]
Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra: Operation Galuga]
Kunio/Riki [River City Saga: Three Kingdoms]
Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble 4 Friends]
Captain Toad/Toadette [Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker]

Any SEGA characters you guys would like to see in Smash?
Kazuma Kiryu

Maybe he wasn't a very relevant pick upon Ultimate's launch, but time has been kind to the tiger.
Is that not maybe a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Being chosen for Smash likely does wonders for your popularity.
 
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Ivander

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,405
Being chosen for Smash likely does wonders for your popularity.
Aside from the ones who were popular to begin with. But that said, there's no denying the attention some characters or variations get when they are put in Smash Bros.
Like not just the obvious ones like Captain Falcon, Ness & Lucas, the Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., the Mii Fighters and the Wii Fit Trainer. Hardly anybody gave attention to the Link to the Past/Link Between Worlds version of Zelda until she was chosen for Smash Bros. and many instantly flocked to her.

So it's not all surprising why there's a demand for older franchises/characters to appear in Smash Bros, since fans of those older characters and franchises really want some of that Smash attention and popularity to rub off onto them and potentially benefit from it.
 
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Capybara Gaming

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I don't have to fish for "I want to see more new franchises". Get over yourself.
Characters from relevant Nintendo franchises are gonna get added each time, why don't you get over yourself and face the facts instead of hating on characters for no reason. Noah, Mio, or both getting in isn't gonna steal a spot from some third party character because they were never gonna get added over them anyway, so get over it and accept that Nintendo is gonna use characters from what's profitable to them when picking newcomers
 

Noipoi

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Is that not maybe a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Being chosen for Smash likely does wonders for your popularity.
In a sense.

But on the competitive side of the fandom specifically, Incineroar has become noteworthy for being absolutely broken in the meta. Thats what makes it a big deal these days for Pokemon fans, but it’s not really something the general populace cares about though.
 

DarthEnderX

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Characters from relevant Nintendo franchises are gonna get added each time, why don't you get over yourself and face the facts instead of hating on characters for no reason.
I gave a reason. That reason isn't invalid just because it can be held against a character YOU want.

Noah, Mio, or both getting in isn't gonna steal a spot from some third party character because they were never gonna get added over them anyway, so get over it and accept that Nintendo is gonna use characters from what's profitable to them when picking newcomers
I'm not too worried about it. Fully half of Ultimate's newcomers were "some third party character". And over half of Ultimate's newcomers were from new franchises. So clearly, Nintendo's got my back.
 
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dream1ng

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Jul 24, 2016
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Is this Incineroar discussion in the context of Smash? Because... he's still probably going to get cut. Look at who else is present.

As for who gets added, depending on timing it's true that they may be able to factor in popularity and not just base it on pre-release design docs shared with Sakurai. Still wouldn't hold my breath for a Pokemon that TPC hasn't decided to grace with heavy promotion though.
 

Capybara Gaming

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I gave a reason. That reason isn't invalid just because it can be held against a character YOU want.

I'm not too worried about it. Fully half of Ultimate's newcomers were "some third party character". And over half of Ultimate's newcomers were from new franchises. So clearly, Nintendo's got my back.
Ultimate was a very different game than any previous Smash title, if you think the next game is gonna be like that you're deluding yourself

And for the record I don't even want Noah or Mio, but one of both is going to happen whether you like it or not. The characters you want ain't getting in over Noah, Mio, a new Pokemon, new Mario characters, and a new Fire Emblem lord, so it's best you face that music now.

Kunio or Hayabusa, maybe, but Bubble Bobble, Contra, Yakuza, and Ghosts 'N' Goblins ain't happening. Mii Costumes? Absolutely, but full playable fighters ain't happening, especially not over Nintendo characters. Same with Adol and Crono.

Again... how dare Nintendo put Nintendo characters in the Nintendo crossover game!!
 
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Speed Weed

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Here’s a thought.

I feel like Smash could use a little more SEGA representation, especially considering their long history and past rivalry with Nintendo. SEGA has plenty of characters that they could pick for Smash. (E.G. Shadow, Kiryu, Akira, NiGHTS)

I honestly think it’d be pretty cool to see Phantasy Star Online in Smash…

Oh, and generally, I think Smash could use some more Sonic representation, especially in terms of music.

Any SEGA characters you guys would like to see in Smash?
Me and the homies popping off when the next Smash game adds Zunzunkyou no Yabou representation
 

Nabbitfan730

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
574
If Shadow ever gets into Smash, I'm kind of hoping they add in music from Sonic Adventure 2 and Shadow the Hedgehog. His stage could either be the Space Colony ARK, Radical Highway or Westopolis.
I'm hoping when Shadow gets in, one of his stages will replace that Green Hill 1.0 and 2.0 abomination.

Also hoping it's the stage is the Space Colony. Not just central for Shadow's character and story but also main key for most Sonic Stories from 2000s. Also we have enough beginner stages.

It would be nice to get some 2000s rep other tha Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Steve and Sora.

Here’s a thought.

I feel like Smash could use a little more SEGA representation, especially considering their long history and past rivalry with Nintendo. SEGA has plenty of characters that they could pick for Smash. (E.G. Shadow, Kiryu, Akira, NiGHTS)

I honestly think it’d be pretty cool to see Phantasy Star Online in Smash…

Oh, and generally, I think Smash could use some more Sonic representation, especially in terms of music.

Any SEGA characters you guys would like to see in Smash?
Puyo Puyo, Nights or Virtual Fighter would be nice to see. Sakurai was clearly flirting with the latter.
 
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Gengar84

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Ultimate was a very different game than any previous Smash title, if you think the next game is gonna be like that you're deluding yourself

And for the record I don't even want Noah or Mio, but one of both is going to happen whether you like it or not. The characters you want ain't getting in over Noah, Mio, a new Pokemon, new Mario characters, and a new Fire Emblem lord, so it's best you face that music now.

Kunio or Hayabusa, maybe, but Bubble Bobble, Contra, Yakuza, and Ghosts 'N' Goblins ain't happening. Mii Costumes? Absolutely, but full playable fighters ain't happening, especially not over Nintendo characters. Same with Adol and Crono.

Again... how dare Nintendo put Nintendo characters in the Nintendo crossover game!!
I’m not sure why you feel the need to be so dismissive about everything. All Darth was saying was that he has more interest in seeing new franchises join Smash than too many additional characters from existing ones. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. New franchises offer a lot of additional content you wouldn’t otherwise see with a third or fourth rep from one we already have. In this specific example, we could easily see a Xenoblade 3 stage and music without the game necessarily needing a character since the series is already represented. I don’t think it’s as likely we’ll get a Ninja Gaiden stage and soundtrack without seeing Hyabusa himself for example.

Finally, I’d be careful with saying anyone “ain’t happening”. You may be right but if you’re wrong, it just makes you look silly for being so sure of yourself. Bill Rizer just got a new game on Switch that’s been well received so I wouldn’t count him out yet. The others seem like reasonable retro picks as well if they wanted to represent a few more classic titles. Not everything has to be about what’s currently relevant.
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,870
Ultimate was a very different game than any previous Smash title, if you think the next game is gonna be like that you're deluding yourself
Each Smash game since Brawl has added more 3rd party characters than the previous game. 2 in Brawl(13%). 5 in Smash 4(26%). And 9 in Ultimate(50%). That's not an anomaly, that's a clearly observable trend.

If you think they're just going to suddenly pull a 180 on that, I'm not the one being delusional.

Again... how dare Nintendo put Nintendo characters in the Nintendo crossover game!!
Iconic 3rd party characters are more interesting than scaping the bottom of the Nintendo barrel. Fans freaked out over each new 3P character, and groaned over Byleth. That's the reality of it.

Not everything has to be about what’s currently relevant.
Even if it was, Bill Rizer, Kunio and Arthur are all more relevant now, than Simon and Richter were when they were added.
 
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RileyXY1

Smash Hero
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Jun 8, 2016
Messages
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With the possibility of the very first ever roster reduction in the series's history coming next game the trends of the past might not be applicable here.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 30, 2023
Messages
412
The reception to Ultimate's newcomers (big 3rd parties + fan favorites) has been overwhelmingly positive. That might change how they choose characters going forward.

But I wouldn't worry about new characters missing the boat. They're more likely than ever, since thanks to DLC they can get in right when they're most relevant instead of having to wait 5-6 years for the next game and potentially getting lost in the shuffle.
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,785
With the possibility of the very first ever roster reduction in the series's history coming next game the trends of the past might not be applicable here.
Yeah. Honestly I am fully expecting 20 cuts at least and hopefully they focus more on the single player like Brawl did, and introduce something new that would allow the game to be more competitive. Though this is making me curious. What would people want out of a full reboot of Smash? Like not just a character reduction because let’s be honest that will happen. I’m talking about a Reboot from the ground up. What would everyone want out of that? I’m curious.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,823
Yeah. Honestly I am fully expecting 20 cuts at least and hopefully they focus more on the single player like Brawl did, and introduce something new that would allow the game to be more competitive. Though this is making me curious. What would people want out of a full reboot of Smash? Like not just a character reduction because let’s be honest that will happen. I’m talking about a Reboot from the ground up. What would everyone want out of that? I’m curious.
I want some kind of substantial co-op adventure mode like Subspace Emissary that better emphasizes the crossover aspect of the series featuring more worlds and enemies from existing games. I loved how the mode both emphasized the platforming aspect of the genre and gave us a chance to actually the characters interact. I also tend to prefer co-op modes than competitive ones and endless exhibition matches can get a little old. I’d also love to see old modes like Break the Targets, Board the Platforms and Race to the Finish return and for the existing ones like Stage Builder to get big improvements.

As far as the roster itself, if we do have a greatly reduced roster size, I’d rather they go all out and radically change how characters are chosen. I think the most interesting option is to go the route of the “vs Capcom” games and turn Smash into “X vs Nintendo” that rotates the non-Nintendo side every game. That way, at least half the roster is completely fresh every game without ballooning the roster to unreasonable levels. Focusing on a single third party developer would theoretically make negotiations easier and give us a chance to see less mainstream third party characters we’d likely never see otherwise with a smaller roster. The VS approach could also open the door to franchises originating from outside video games down the line. For example, we could see something like Nintendo vs Marvel or Nintendo vs Shonen Jump.

As much as I love Smash as it currently is, and would like to see “Everyone is here” continue, more of the same with less characters doesn’t sound too appealing to me. If the roster needs to be scaled back, which I admit is inevitable at some point, I believe they need something interesting to make up for those cuts. When that happens, I think we either need a drastically beefed up single player/co-op experience, a big roster shake-up that changes the rules for who is selected, or both.
 
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CapitaineCrash

Smash Champion
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Canada, Québec
Alright, so here's a challenge: try creating a 50-man roster but the characters have to have had a game on Switch during its lifespan (NSO doesn't count but retro collections/ports do).
I'll do it for fun. I'm going to crank up the difficulty by not counting retro collections, because I feel like it makes thing way too easy (I might regret this tho). I'm also not going to count ports from older generations, but ports of ps4 generation games will count. For example, Hyrule warriors ports will not count as a Switch games, because it's a Wii U game, but Persona 5 is going to count since it's a port of a ps4 game. For big remaster and remake I'm going to count them as new game (such as Link's awakening or Mario rpg).

I'll start with veterans. Already from the get go, Dr. Mario, King K. Rool, Sheik, Young Link, Toon Link, Dark Samus, Ridley, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Ness, Lucas, Ice climber, Mr Game & Watch, Pit, Palutena, Dark Pit, Snake, ROB, Wii fit trainer, Little Mac, Duck hunt, Ryu, Ken, Simon, Richter, Banjo-Kazooie and Kazuya are cuts because those characters have no games. Not counting echoes, I end up with 50 veterans (counting Trainer and Miis as 1 character). So I could stop right there and have a roster with no newcomers but that would be boring. I'm going with 6 more cuts to make room for 6 newcomers like Ultimate. The cuts that I chose are Piranha plant, Pokemon trainer, Pichu, Roy (and by extension Chrom), Sephiroth and Joker. Finally, I add Sidon, Ring fit adventurer, Sami (advance wars), Ayumi Tachibana, Monster hunter and Doom slayer. The reason why I add a Advance wars rep and Famicom detective club rep is that because of the original rule, we had to cut pretty much every retro character, so I add the 2 that was possible through remakes. So final roster is:

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Daisy
Bowser
Rosalina & Luma
Bowser Jr.
Donkey kong
Diddy kong
Yoshi
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Sidon
Samus
Zero suit Samus
Kirby
King dedede
Meta knight
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Greninja
Incineroar
Captain Falcon
Marth
Lucina
Ike
Robin
Corrin
Byleth
Olimar
Villager
Isabelle
Shulk
Pyra/Mythra
Inkling
Min Min
Ring fit adventurer
Sami
Ayumi Tachibana

Sonic
Mega Man
Pac-Man
Cloud
Bayonetta
Hero
Steve
Sora
Monster hunter
Doom slayer
 
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Geno Boost

Smash Master
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Jul 25, 2014
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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Here’s a thought.

I feel like Smash could use a little more SEGA representation, especially considering their long history and past rivalry with Nintendo. SEGA has plenty of characters that they could pick for Smash. (E.G. Shadow, Kiryu, Akira, NiGHTS)

I honestly think it’d be pretty cool to see Phantasy Star Online in Smash…

Oh, and generally, I think Smash could use some more Sonic representation, especially in terms of music.

Any SEGA characters you guys would like to see in Smash?
Alex kidd would be my most wanted
others are:
-Vectorman
-Jack frost
-Hornet from daytona
-Red from angry birds
 

Capybara Gaming

Just Vibing
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I’m not sure why you feel the need to be so dismissive about everything. All Darth was saying was that he has more interest in seeing new franchises join Smash than too many additional characters from existing ones. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. New franchises offer a lot of additional content you wouldn’t otherwise see with a third or fourth rep from one we already have. In this specific example, we could easily see a Xenoblade 3 stage and music without the game necessarily needing a character since the series is already represented. I don’t think it’s as likely we’ll get a Ninja Gaiden stage and soundtrack without seeing Hyabusa himself for example.

Finally, I’d be careful with saying anyone “ain’t happening”. You may be right but if you’re wrong, it just makes you look silly for being so sure of yourself. Bill Rizer just got a new game on Switch that’s been well received so I wouldn’t count him out yet. The others seem like reasonable retro picks as well if they wanted to represent a few more classic titles. Not everything has to be about what’s currently relevant.
I take issue with the notion that characters from existing franchises aren't worth including just because their franchise is represented, and that all the Nintendo options are "bottom of the barrel." It's frankly an ignorant stance to take when there are still plenty of cool and iconic Nintendo characters left out. Dixie Kong, Waluigi, Noah & Mio, literally just about anyone from WarioWare's crew, Krystal, Bandana Waddle Dee, a new Splatoon rep, Gen 9 in Pokemon alone has about a dozen excellent options. I guarantee more people can tell me who Waluigi is than the protagonist of Contra, a game series that has been struggling for relevancy since the 90s. No one cares about Contra anymore. You wanna talk bottom of the barrel? Contra isn't even bottom of the barrel, it's bottom of the barrel stack.

Darth has this frankly asinine idea in his head that characters from existing series can't be exciting.

Ultimate was very clearly a different game than all that came before. It had great picks - but as much as I'd love to see them keep that hype machine going, the bubble has to burst somewhere. Anyone who thinks all these, often expensive and frequently difficult to negotiate for, third parties are getting prioritized over inhouse characters is in lala land, especially if Sakurai isn't directing. Ultimate was a miracle. Miracles don't happen twice.
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
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Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,085
Kind of. I did mean the Disney (Mickey Mouse stuff) and Looney Tunes kind of toon physics.

Also, I forgot to mention this, but when you said what you said about types of characters, I must say; I, for one, think it is quite fun to use types as a way to talk about what characters should get in, based on that type of course. We don't always have to talk about specific characters, and to be honest, I find talking about characters in more vague ways (and trying to determine which character of that type would work) to be fun.
I feel like the Closet Character that could do the Toon Physics concept is Cuphead actually, since his own game is based on the Cartoons of that Era were Toon Physics were really prominent.

Of course to be he honest, If you do want to put in a Character that does focus on those type of Physics, you might as well do the one that started it all



If Shadow ever gets into Smash, I'm kind of hoping they add in music from Sonic Adventure 2 and Shadow the Hedgehog. His stage could either be the Space Colony ARK, Radical Highway or Westopolis.
I dont think they would add a stage for him since he'd most likely be a clone of Sonic
So on Shadow

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So one thing I could say about Shadow is that with him, I know exactly what Specials he would have and where they would be Placed, since I think he has exactly 4 Unique Techniques when it comes to his Chaos Powers

Neutral Special: Chaos Control

Side Special: Chaos Spear

Down Special: Chaos Blast

Up Special: Chaos Warp


Now the thing I think makes Shadow Tricky when it comes to actually implementing him into the game is Combining his Power Set with the Fast Gameplay of Sonic Series fame, especially since Shadow Specifically is a more Aggressive, straight to the point type of Fighter compared to Sonic, in a balanced way. Sonic Himself already is hard enough to Balance I think just because of his Speed


However Beyond the fact that I just really like the Character, the reason Shadow has been my Most wanted for so long is that if they did pull it off, Shadow would probably be one of the Coolest and Fun characters added to Smash gameplay wise, both for Casuals and also for Competitive. Which is why I've been adamant about a Clone Shadow being an bad idea.

A Hyper Aggressive, Flashy, Fast, Strong Rushdown Fighter that has the ability to Control alot of Space and even Time sounds overpowered, but It's Also a Fighter that people already know would be fun. It's also one that people Wished Sonic could be (The Hyper Agressive rushdown part)

I do think Shadow could be Balanced though. I think the Main thing would be making his Chaos Moves have Extreme Strengths, but Extreme Weaknesses if countered correctly

Chaos Control is a Time Stop move that's Specifically NOT a counter because you'd actually want to hit him, since if you do, Shadow gets Stopped in time Himself instead (He'd also have the emerald when he's doing it as an easy visual for what he's doing)

Chaos Spear is a Projectile move good at Covering Space, but could be Reflected back easily (which fits better on a Character like Shadow with his Mobility than one Like Ganondorf)

Chaos Blast is a an Explosive Move with Great Destructive power, but can easily turn Shadow into a Bomb himself to Launch if he is intercepted in time.

Chaos Warp being a Teleport that Doesn't go into Freefall, and be used multiple times in Succession, would be good for doing combos and Laying down aggression, but the requirement to hit an Opponent to reset the Teleport and it's natural short distance makes his Recovery in a Defensive position lacking

I'd also make it that Shadow's Speed actually follows the Canonical formula for how Sonic characters speed actually work in the games. How Sonic moves in Smash is actually not accurate to the games since he needs to Build himself up before he can reach high speeds, But Sonic's Initial Dash is So Fast it ignores that build up outright. You a

Making Shadow's Initial Speed slower but his Top Speed Fast would make it so he can be Fast when he's Aggressive and going towards you, but Running (Skating in Shadow's Case) away would be unincentivized and easy for the Opponent to catch you.

For Stages and Music, Even if it's not the Ark Specifically, a Space type of stage fits not only Shadow but the Sonic Series perfectly since Space is a common environment for Sonic characters. and I think beyond more Shadow specific tracks, more Stage themes from Non-Classic era games would be perfect, especially if they are going to continue to only have the first verses for the vocal tracks
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,870
No one cares about Contra anymore. You wanna talk bottom of the barrel? Contra isn't even bottom of the barrel, it's bottom of the barrel stack.
...it got a new game last month. By WayForward.

You're just malding cause you can't force me to care about Noah & Mio.

Darth has this frankly asinine idea in his head that characters from existing series can't be exciting.
They are inherently less exciting.
 
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RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
7,239
I take issue with the notion that characters from existing franchises aren't worth including just because their franchise is represented, and that all the Nintendo options are "bottom of the barrel." It's frankly an ignorant stance to take when there are still plenty of cool and iconic Nintendo characters left out. Dixie Kong, Waluigi, Noah & Mio, literally just about anyone from WarioWare's crew, Krystal, Bandana Waddle Dee, a new Splatoon rep, Gen 9 in Pokemon alone has about a dozen excellent options. I guarantee more people can tell me who Waluigi is than the protagonist of Contra, a game series that has been struggling for relevancy since the 90s. No one cares about Contra anymore. You wanna talk bottom of the barrel? Contra isn't even bottom of the barrel, it's bottom of the barrel stack.

Darth has this frankly asinine idea in his head that characters from existing series can't be exciting.

Ultimate was very clearly a different game than all that came before. It had great picks - but as much as I'd love to see them keep that hype machine going, the bubble has to burst somewhere. Anyone who thinks all these, often expensive and frequently difficult to negotiate for, third parties are getting prioritized over inhouse characters is in lala land, especially if Sakurai isn't directing. Ultimate was a miracle. Miracles don't happen twice.
Yeah. People keep thinking that Ultimate is going to be the standard for the series going forward. It's not. As you said, it's a miracle that Ultimate even exists in its current state. And when the roster is going to decrease in size for the very first time compromises will have to be made.
 

Gengar84

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Messages
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I take issue with the notion that characters from existing franchises aren't worth including just because their franchise is represented, and that all the Nintendo options are "bottom of the barrel." It's frankly an ignorant stance to take when there are still plenty of cool and iconic Nintendo characters left out. Dixie Kong, Waluigi, Noah & Mio, literally just about anyone from WarioWare's crew, Krystal, Bandana Waddle Dee, a new Splatoon rep, Gen 9 in Pokemon alone has about a dozen excellent options. I guarantee more people can tell me who Waluigi is than the protagonist of Contra, a game series that has been struggling for relevancy since the 90s. No one cares about Contra anymore. You wanna talk bottom of the barrel? Contra isn't even bottom of the barrel, it's bottom of the barrel stack.

Darth has this frankly asinine idea in his head that characters from existing series can't be exciting.

Ultimate was very clearly a different game than all that came before. It had great picks - but as much as I'd love to see them keep that hype machine going, the bubble has to burst somewhere. Anyone who thinks all these, often expensive and frequently difficult to negotiate for, third parties are getting prioritized over inhouse characters is in lala land, especially if Sakurai isn't directing. Ultimate was a miracle. Miracles don't happen twice.
I think a lot of people are discounting the historical significance of past games. Even though Contra isn’t anywhere near as popular now as it was back then, it was still a very popular franchise and was among the most popular during the NES and SNES eras. You could make that same argument for characters we already got like Banjo, Mega Man, Simon, and Terry. Like I mentioned before, it shouldn’t be all about what’s currently relevant. I think Smash is best as a celebration of gaming history as a whole. That includes both newer and older characters. Contra actually just got a new game and it’s had a pretty positive reception from what I’ve seen.

People seem to be too stuck on only getting the biggest mainstream characters and not taking to account that some of what we’ve already gotten doesn’t fit into that. You’re also just making an assumption of how the roster selection is going to go next time. None of us really know at this point so it’s best not to be dismissive of options we may not see as likely. Like Darth said, each Smash has added more and more third party characters so logic would dictate that trend would continue.
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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Joined
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412
I think Bub/Bob as an old school 3rd party character would work pretty well. Bubble Bobble and Puzzle Bubble/Bust a Move are always going to be popular, and a moveset themed after bubbles would be pretty new. Between their two main series and Rainbow Islands if they want to dig deep there's enough stuff to draw from to make them work.

I also can't see them happening because they fall in a similar space to Bomberman but they're a little less popular I think.
But they'd be cool.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I take issue with the notion that characters from existing franchises aren't worth including just because their franchise is represented, and that all the Nintendo options are "bottom of the barrel." It's frankly an ignorant stance to take when there are still plenty of cool and iconic Nintendo characters left out. Dixie Kong, Waluigi, Noah & Mio, literally just about anyone from WarioWare's crew, Krystal, Bandana Waddle Dee, a new Splatoon rep, Gen 9 in Pokemon alone has about a dozen excellent options. I guarantee more people can tell me who Waluigi is than the protagonist of Contra, a game series that has been struggling for relevancy since the 90s. No one cares about Contra anymore. You wanna talk bottom of the barrel? Contra isn't even bottom of the barrel, it's bottom of the barrel stack.

Darth has this frankly asinine idea in his head that characters from existing series can't be exciting.

Ultimate was very clearly a different game than all that came before. It had great picks - but as much as I'd love to see them keep that hype machine going, the bubble has to burst somewhere. Anyone who thinks all these, often expensive and frequently difficult to negotiate for, third parties are getting prioritized over inhouse characters is in lala land, especially if Sakurai isn't directing. Ultimate was a miracle. Miracles don't happen twice.
You gotta calm down dude. You're getting a little heated about this.
 

BritishGuy54

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Dec 14, 2020
Messages
374
Okay, this topic is getting pretty heated.

No, Nintendo first party characters are not the bottom of the barrel. This mentality that has permeated since Ultimate’s DLC is frankly unfair and dismisses a lot of what has come from Nintendo themselves since Ultimate.

Ultimate is indeed a miracle, and one that likely won’t happen again. While it would be nice to get new third parties, I’m not expecting it on the same scale as Ultimate.

None of us know what the next game will entail.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
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Okay, this topic is getting pretty heated.

No, Nintendo first party characters are not the bottom of the barrel. This mentality that has permeated since Ultimate’s DLC is frankly unfair and dismisses a lot of what has come from Nintendo themselves since Ultimate.

Ultimate is indeed a miracle, and one that likely won’t happen again. While it would be nice to get new third parties, I’m not expecting it on the same scale as Ultimate.

None of us know what the next game will entail.
I know what it will entail.

The next game will have Mario, Pokemon and Zelda characters.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,823
I think it’s fine for us to have disagreements as long as we can be civil about it. Let’s try not to be too dismissive or resort to personal attacks based on what we want to see in a video game. There’s way more important things in the world to stress over. Let’s just try to enjoy a friendly conversation here.
 
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