Match-Up Discussion: Ice Climbers

[Xyless]

I actually haven't tried. I have a feeling it might make breaking out of grabs worse, since grab breaking works in a similar way to SDI, I believe.

 

[deepseadiva]

Not a word Rick.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Edit:

Not a word Rick.

Fine

Actually tbh, it's probably not a big deal in this case since you can probably just mash something else as well and you'll probably just break out as quickly

 

[Meru.]

I doubt it works worse tbh. Breaking out of a grabs is basically a matter of mashing commands, and I dont see how Upsmash is less of a command than UpB.

 

[¿Qué?]

Could you please just say slight advantage, or just advantage, or solid advantage etc. This 55/45 60/40 stuff is confusing in this thread.

Forgive me.

Slight advantage in that case.

They can poke at each other with their own strengths, but in the end Peach has a better chance coming out victorious due to her stronger game, countering the IC's strong game.

A bit better?

 

[gantrain05]

i don't worry bout grab breaks, i don't get grabbed

 

[culexus・wau]

Everyone will get grabbed eventually.

its not like we're perfect.

 

[deepseadiva]

I think if the stage has platforms, getting grabbed is realistically avoidable using the campiest strategy ever. Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes.

Remember: They can't call you ghey if they are playing ICs!

 

[Nicole]

you can set L to taunt if you still wanna taunt (which i like to, it IS important)

 

[culexus・wau]

Who needs to taunt when you can just pull more turnips

:>

 

[gantrain05]

i side taunt after every Ftilt kill,

and who said im not perfect!? huh?! well...i disagree, i AM indeed perfect ok?

also i think the IC MU is probably closer to 50/50 than peach advantage, honestly IC's have ways around all of peach's tactics but peach also has a good amount of tools to win. im gonna have to say dead even 50/50 if both know the MU

i'm also not gonna describe any reasons why i think this way, nobody listens to me anyways lol.

alls im gonna say is everyone is severly overrating float and turnips in this MU, turnips are good to get around blizzard and for gimping, any other time its kind of a waste to pull them. Sure they can be good for mixups as well, but you can't glide toss at IC's, but maybe im wrong. I feel you should be spacing with more Fairs and punishing their mistakes with a Dair to get nana and popo seperated, if the Dair connects you can pretty much do whatever u want to nana as she is going to DI the same way all the time.

float is good, but this MU is honestly more of a pick your hits and run kind of MU and if u stay floating around all day in the air your opponent is gonna catch on to your strategy eventually, its not really all that safe imo.

 

[Meru.]

Forgive me.

Slight advantage in that case.

They can poke at each other with their own strengths, but in the end Peach has a better chance coming out victorious due to her stronger game, countering the IC's strong game.

A bit better?

Oh it wasn't solely directed to you (my post ending up below yours was a coincidence), it was to everyone in the discussion.

...but yeah. This is much better.

 

[Piggyman86]

I think if the stage has platforms, getting grabbed is realistically avoidable using the campiest strategy ever. Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes.

k meno it seems you dont understand


if you play like this, than you may shut off grabbing as an option, but in doing so open yourself up to getting zomg wtf'd in the *** by damage with blizz, uair, etc.

and therefore losing the lead


then having to approach,

and get grabbed

exactly how much damage is peach going to do while completely avoiding grab and simultaneously avoiding the ics crazy good damage game?

just the threat of the grab opens a ton more options for ics players to abuse

 

[¿Qué?]

Oh it wasn't solely directed to you (my post ending up below yours was a coincidence), it was to everyone in the discussion.

...but yeah. This is much better.

:3

Lmfaooo I totally assumed this because of KB's post after, but it's cool. I understand that just giving a number ratio is sooooper vague.

 

[Peachkid]

The answer is turnips, Always turnips. and dair... dair is nice... Oh and jab too

I havent played this match up much recently but I did used to play with X-Factor alot so I might be able to give decent insight.


IC's has an advantage in ideal situations for them yes. But Peach is so very very good at messing up nana like its nobodies business. Keep a turnip in hand for whenever the popo tries to retaliate and punish him via Z-Drop and continue to wail on the Nana. Oh and nana loves Usmashes so very very much. If the peach can get popo off the stage leaving nana behind, She will go on derpy auto pilot and run straight for popo. OH LOOK PEACH IS CHARGING USMASH! WHAT DOES NANA DO? ...Nothing but GET HIT OHHHHHH. Up turnip throws get so helpful here. Hide behind walls and walls of turnips if you feel like the IC's are getting too close and antsy.

I cant stress how important spacing is in this matchup. Sure IC's have one of if not the worst grab ranges in the game but that does not mean at all that you can get sloppy on spacing at all. Weave in and out of their range with fairs and dairs and punish the times they try to grab and stuff. the push back on your fair on their shield should cover you long enough to float back and get some distance. Oh and careful about dsmashing, Idk this always happens to me, but when ever I dsmash I often get grabbed maybe I'm just spacing wrong or something *shrug*

note; I haven't really gotten to play against an IC for 1000 consecutive matches in a long time. Maybe these tidbits help? Hopefully they do though ^_^

cliff notes version: Turnips, space fairs/dairs, kill the *****, kill popo, dont get grabbed, camp like a *****, rinse repeat

But if you *****es need a ratio.... 50:50 maybe 55:45 Peach

 

[Eddie G]

Nooooooo, not that much jab. Grab armor will **** the **** out of careless jabbing.

 

[gantrain05]

playing hylian made me realize turnips don't work very well, he literally catches every single one of them and on a couple situations he immediatly threw the turnip back at me and then nana or popo would ice block as well, which when i got hit by the turnip it let the other climber in close enough to grab me unless im reverse tossing, which doesn't get anyone anywhere.

 

[Nicole]

You dont wanna just camp the ICs, you will get predictable and they'll be able to defend against everything you do. It's better to be approaching them if the %'s are close. Obviously if you have a good lead then you should just run. But it's actually not that easy to run from them. It IS better to react to their approaches if you have the lead - don't make them chase you down, you'll probably take alot of unnecessary damage imo.

Turnips are really risky...you want to use them but you really have to watch where you're pulling them even if you do bonewalk/freepull. You really shouldn't pull THAT many, use them when you need them and leave them alone otherwise.

@Jlo, just always fair after you throw a turnip at Hylian and you won't have any problems, cause Peach will catch the turnip when they throw it back and she'll hit them with fair too.

 

[Peachkid]

Ah well, thats just what worked for me ^_^; alittle upset my points aren't valid but eh, not a big deal. Hopefully I can play an IC soon so I can give some more accurate insight

 

[gantrain05]

well i don't usually expect people to immediatly throw my projectiles back at me and i wasn't sure if throwing out an arial right after would catch it or get me punished so i just gtfo of there and pretty much played like an annoying beach the entire time lol.

 

[z00ted]

The Ice Climbers matchup is so dumb.. haha

 

[Nicole]

Ah well, thats just what worked for me ^_^; alittle upset my points aren't valid but eh, not a big deal. Hopefully I can play an IC soon so I can give some more accurate insight

Not saying you're wrong, PK, just saying how I play it. IC's are used to everyone camping them so they can deal with camping pretty well and Peach is slow and less able to run away from them than some other chars, however, she is able to pressure them and poke them and separate them better than alot of chars. Play to your strengths, imo.

camping is much safer though...

 

[gantrain05]

Not saying you're wrong, PK, just saying how I play it. IC's are used to everyone camping them so they can deal with camping pretty well and Peach is slow and less able to run away from them than some other chars, however, she is able to pressure them and poke them and separate them better than alot of chars. Play to your strengths, imo.

camping is much safer though...

is this nicole switching from campy to awesome mode? i approve, camping is safe but lame......................learn2rapeshields.

 

[Xyless]

Just get a stock lead, then float off stage and then do ledge canceled parasols.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Dont fight on the ground unless they are apart.

Use your platforms and turnips, Camping is (sadly) a must in this MU.

After ranking some decent damage, try floating Dairs or Dsmashes to seperate them and KO them.

Dont approach from the ground... Dont glide toss forward... dont do unnecesary Spot dodges...

You have lots of shield poking attacks, use em wisely.

In case of trouble JAB, its fast enough to stop any of their attacks/grabs.

 

[culexus・wau]

And a question...

I know you can manually drop items after getting hit and they have a hitbox at times (hit A as you get hit) [idk if turnips do tho, pretttttttttty sure saturns and swords do tho.

Does it work during the ICs CG or after you get upsmashed? lol? im pretty confident it might work on the latter, idk about the former.

Anyone test this before I ask a friend to do it for me?

also agreeing on Nicole's point on aggressing when you can VS ICs.

due to the fact there is a 6 frame delay between each climbers imputs, they can't reliably perfect shield without one of them getting hit.

and we all know what happens when peach gets shield pressure going.

furthermore ICs [imo] have really mediocre defensive options [besides grab really, but dat range], Combine this with bad traction [since most of the time they can't perfect shield...] and you got us some shield pressure bait ;>

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Off the top of my head, no

When you drop a Turnip when you get hit, the Turnip doesn't have a hitbox, it just drops and plonks itself into the ground

You could probably do it with items though