Center of Gravity

[¿Qué?]

Edited for the sake of everyone's pretentiousness.

 

[Dnyce]

first

-dead-

 

[¿Qué?]

Lmfao. I just made it. :f






Also forgot to mention Peach's double jump. It's good, but it's pretty risky.

 

[Dnyce]

tl;dr Characters like Olimar cannot momentum cancel

false

 

[¿Qué?]

This pretty much is explaining what's going down after the first quick attack when trying to survive past kill percent.

You first use a move that will remove your hit stun. The best one for Peach would be downward thrown turnip. After that, you'd follow up with Up air or double jump. You could use Dair, Bair, or Nair but that + fast falling wouldn't be enough to survive anything note worthy trying to DI.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

 

[Meru.]

No offense but this is annoying me now.

Yet again you make a post about this matter, and yet again you have no sources or back-up, we should believe it because you perceive it like this. You use the term 'Center of Gravity', something that no one has every heard of in the last 3,2 years of Brawl. Multiple threads have stated that every move momentum cancels the same: the only thing that truly matters is speed. If your character has a quick Dair, it's even better, because you can immediately fastfall.

This has been extensively tested, but we can also apply some logic to counter your assumptions . MK is amazing at momentum canceling because of his speed. Uair is very fast. The only thing he does is swinging his sword. His 'Center of Gravity' does not change at all. Same with Olimar.

If we're looking at your text... Peach's middle stays roughly the same. Her back air completely ***** this center of gravity thing. Her feet and head do not stay the same, she stretches her legs so her feet do change, and she moves her head slightly forward AND looks behind her. Same for Fair, but to a lesser extent than Bair. She doesn't only 'swing her arm' as if she's a robot. She's moving her whole ****ing body! She wholly bending forward, so how does her center of gravity 'barely' change?

However, you just refuse to acknowledge this. That's ok. What I do not find ok is that you're spreading this ****. And it will remain ****, until you have some kind of material to back it up. Again no offense, but this isn't cool.

EDIT: I'm even thinking you're messing with me, but this is just in case someone takes this seriously then.

 

[¿Qué?]

Well, Yaaay, if this is annoying you then ignore the thread. I think I'm on to something so let it be. I'm not trying to mess with you either. I've just found what I should be calling it. Now, if you have nothing productive to say then please leave.


I understand that Metaknight is quick, but not all characters have the luxury of 3 frame moves + 5 jumps. That's why Metaknight can do what he can. Fast falling can only do so much. Like I said below, I have a lot of other character examples of what I'm talking about. And I'm going to highly disagree and I'm sure many people will back me up on this. Not all aerials momentum cancel the same.

Please, if you don't like my ideas, and you take them that seriously then ignore my thread and let others give their opinions on it. I have absolutely NOTHING against you at all. Nothing.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I'm...actually rather confused as to what this thread is trying to say

Are you trying put forward a better way to Momentum Cancel or are you building on stuff that's known and trying to find a way to explain it better?

 

[¿Qué?]

I'm...actually rather confused as to what this thread is trying to say

Are you trying put forward a better way to Momentum Cancel or are you building on stuff that's known and trying to find a way to explain it better?

Trying to list moves that are better for stopping your momentum after using a move that's good for getting you out of hit stun.

Think of Peach getting launched and throwing a turnip downward to remove hit stun. After that you would use a move that would distort your position in the air, and when you do that it shakes off most of the knock back.

There are some characters that are blessed with moves that can just be done over and over, and be just as effective.

A really good example of what I'm trying to get at with this thread is Ness.

Ness's fair is good for removing hit stun, but he'll still be flying at a quick rate, just like when peach throws a turnip downward.

So, after using Ness's fair, you'd use his better options. His Bair, Uair and Jump. His Jump is GODLY for this. What I've noticed, and what I would like for people to try for themselves(since I don't have the equipment to record and such) is to find the difference when moves like this are used as opposed to other quicker moves with less dramatic animations.

It's a little complicated to understand I guess, but once you see what I'm talking about it becomes pretty noticable.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Trying to list moves that are better for stopping your momentum after using a move that's good for getting you out of hit stun.

Think of Peach getting launched and throwing a turnip downward to remove hit stun. After that you would use a move that would distort your position in the air, and when you do that it shakes off most of the knock back.

Right ok, but in absolutely every character's case, that move is Jump

Ignoring the exceptions like G&W's Bucket and DK's Up + B, it is vital that you Jump (and move in the opposite direction you're being sent) in order to actually get Momentum Cancelling to work

Jump is the thing that puts the brakes on the knockback you're suffering. If you don't use Jump, you'll still suffer knockback (ignoring the exceptions). Using a move that isn't jump regardless of whether or not it 'disorts' your position won't prevent knockback whatsoever


I can see how Jumping AND THEN using a move like Fair which shifts your body forward (something I glanced at a while ago) could potentially help but as for this whole 'center of gravity' thing, atm I'm not convinced. Nevertheless, I will have a look into it now whilst I have some spare time as I'm curious all the same

 

[Zankoku]

So where's the part where you definitively give us proof that this "center of gravity" thing is a true concept?

btw, throwing turnip downward is best form of momentum cancel because it has a combination of the least cooldown of anything, attribute of normal aerial (and thus can be used 25 frames after getting launched), and still works to eliminate your hitstun.
In other words, any aerials thrown out after that that do not actually have momentum reducing properties have absolutely no effect.

 

[deepseadiva]

btw, throwing turnip downward is best form of momentum cancel

I don't remember if me and Hot released our findings about Peach's optimal momentum canceling, but we did find that turnip throws are not the best choice in most instances. They give you a boost similar to specials for some reason.

I'll get to making a thread or something soon.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

You mean this?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293031#5

I wonder if it's to do with item throwing

 

[deepseadiva]

Yea! That.

 

[Zankoku]

Really? That's pretty interesting, actually.

 

[¿Qué?]

Okay...

I'm starting to think that momentum canceling is getting confused with gaining control of your character in the air again.

Momentum canceling is when you slow down your speed (aka momentum) when you're getting launched by an attack. There are moves that are better for this than others.

When it comes to gaining control of your character in the air again after an attack, is when you use quick moves to get you out of the stun.

Sometimes in rare cases, you'll have a character like Metaknight blessed with 3 frame attacks. Those attacks can be both used to regain control, and reduce momentum, since the move can be done over and over extremely quickly.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Please stop super theory crafting.

The amount of super theory is equivalent to this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195594

 

[Zankoku]

I am in complete support of popularizing the term "super theory crafting".

 

[Dnyce]

I don't remember if me and Hot released our findings about Peach's optimal momentum canceling, but we did find that turnip throws are not the best choice in most instances. They give you a boost similar to specials for some reason.

I'll get to making a thread or something soon.

Well, simply using an aerial does NOT momentum cancel, it's the fast fall.

The amount of super theory is equivalent to this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195594

I've been referring to that thread for the Pit-Olimar match-up for YEARS now

I am in complete support of popularizing the term "super theory crafting".

I am at loss for why anyone would have a beef with you, lol.

 

[Nordal]

I ****ing lol'd for like twenty minutes straight.