Canadian Salt Spill - Tool Link+

[ThatGuy]

I think he's Pac Man.

 

[VietGeek]

An attempt at some minor tweaks

Download (.zip with both .gct [made using the latest beta] and .pac [with all GSH1 changes too]: here

Physics Revision 2:

29AAB740

Short Hop: 1.15
Full Hop: 1.15
Fast Fall: 1.175
Down Gravity: 1.050
Gravity: (0.082239) PSA edit

New physics maintain a floatiness similar to his older physics, but he reaches the apex of his jump more quickly. His fastfall speed has been decreased slightly to not be so ridiculous and out-of-character. All timing specific arrow ATs can still be performed with slightly more difficulty (is only noticeable by maybe 5-6 frames difference). As usual please provide comments; I tried to make these physics appeal to almost everyone.

Like Link, Toon Link's upB recovery is affected by gravity.

UpB height compensation

To offset the gravity changes, TL's aerial UpB has event "0E010200" (add momentum) added onto sub-action 1DD, with vertical momentum boost of 0.25 scalar. Please test to see if vertical recovery matches original please. Also report any glitches (hopefully they won't be any this time around).

Fair Tweak (test please; activate anti-placebo please!)
All fair hitbox angles changed from 169 (special 40) to 40 to decrease DI potency (aka trying to make it a slightly more worthy kill move).

Dsmash Tweak

All Dsmash hitboxes' have more BKB and lower angles so that they can be kill moves at higher percents (naturally assuming opponent DI is optimal: hold up). Before Dsmash would rarely ever kill unless no DI was involved. Has similar stats to Fox's dsmash for a comparison; sweetspot compensated accordingly and has a minor size increase in an attempt to make the hitbox more humanly possible to connect with:

"Sweetspot" (E): hitbox size increased to 4 from 2.9 (front side of TL's >body< [key word] is the hitbox; should be somewhat more possible to land in a match).

Front:
    -Hitbox A: New:[1x Size; 7->13 Dmg; 100->70 KBG; 40->50 BKB; 70?->30?]; Old:[1x Size; 7->13 Dmg; 100->70 KBG; 40->35 BKB; 70?->40?]
    -Hitbox B: New:[1x Size; 7->13 Dmg; 100->70 KBG; 40->50 BKB; 70?->30?]; Old:[1x Size; 7->13 Dmg; 100->70 KBG; 40->35 BKB; 70?->40?]
    -Hitbox C: New:[1x Size; 6->13 Dmg; 100->70 KBG; 0->50 BKB; 170?->30?]; Old:[1x Size; 6->13 Dmg; 100->70 KBG; 0->35 BKB; 170?->40?]
    -Hitbox D: New:[1x Size; 6->13 Dmg; 100->70 KBG; 0->50 BKB; 170?->30?]; Old:[1x Size; 6->13 Dmg; 100->70 KBG; 0->35 BKB; 170?->40?]
    -Hitbox E: New:[approx. 1.38x Size; 6->15 Dmg; 100->85 KBG; 0->50 BKB; 180?->25?]; Old:[1x Size; 6->15 Dmg; 100->85 KBG; 0->45 BKB; 180?->35?]
    -SDI Capacity Multiplier: 0.00x->1.00x

Back:
   -Hitbox A: New:[1x Size; 11 Dmg; 107->83 KBG; 30->52 BKB; 72?->25?]; Old:[1x Size; 11 Dmg; 107->83 KBG; 30->47 BKB; 72?->35?]
    -Hitbox B: New:[1x Size; 11 Dmg; 107->83 KBG; 30->52 BKB; 72?->25?]; Old:[1x Size; 11 Dmg; 107->83 KBG; 30->47 BKB; 72?->35?]
    -Hitbox C: New:[1x Size; 11 Dmg; 107->83 KBG; 30->52 BKB; 72?->25?]; Old:[1x Size; 11 Dmg; 107->83 KBG; 30->47 BKB; 72?->35?]
    -Hitbox D: New:[1x Size; 11 Dmg; 107->83 KBG; 30->52 BKB; 72?->25?]; Old:[1x Size; 11 Dmg; 107->83 KBG; 30->47 BKB; 72?->35?]

VietGeek wants to hear feedback (complaints are fine too!) from all Toon Link players. These are minor changes, and doesn't exactly affect moves that would be breaking Toon Link to begin with, but it should serve to further polish up TL+ to fit more into "Fun Speed Activate!"; something long overdue but is now possible with the current tools and attained knowledge.

Finally I'm documenting the nerfs Toon Link received in GSH1 (the beta):

- First hit F smash damage reduced
Reduced all 1st hit hitboxes damages to 6%, so the attack in total only does 17-19% now instead of 21-23%.

- Boomerang speed up changed to be an IASA with arrows only
Prevents Boomerang becoming too safe after being thrown out but now is a minor buff to the camping game without changing dedication lag to performing the move.

Documenting all of this so that when the day Brawl+ is finished arrives; a "layman's" changelist can be created. ^__^

 

[TLMSheikant]

All the changes are good. Now for a "worth it dair" andhes gold. Oh and boomerang shall be missed. R.I.P 5.0 boomerang.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Cape removed the arrow-only IASA

 

[TLMSheikant]

Wait whaat? Ugh. I was getting used to it too... Just like the 5.0 boomerang. R.I.P

 

[VietGeek]

Cape removed the arrow-only IASA

no he didn't. The latest changelist meant to say "remove 1.2x speed-up, now should only have IASA into arrow only." Cape added IASA into arrow but forgot to take out the frame speed changes the first time around...until I reminded him. =X

Remember this is the same changelist that just tells me that Yoshi has "throw mix-ups" and to wait for Ryoko.

Take it with a grain of salt, please. =P

Also Sheikant, please test the changes whenever you can.

 

[zaf]

Stop asking for a more worth it dair. If it becomes less risky to use dair offstage then it just makes toon link broken. His dair spike is not meant to be used as his main kill move. Dair is good enough on stage and you should try using it there more before you say it needs to be better. Just because a move can do an action ( I.E spike), does not mean that they should change the game to make that move more aplicable

Viet, I wont be trying this pac for your changes because i do not play/like the new beta. I find tumble to be a horrible idea. I just play the 5.0 gold version

 

[TLMSheikant]

But im talking about its onstage version zaf. IDK why u think it is any good onstage. :/ Oh and I will, viet.

 

[zaf]

It is amazing on stage, you can ask anyone of the people from montreal who play me. I can even get them in here telling you how good it is on stage. It has great recovery time, and is safe to use. There is no reason to change it. Just try using it on stage more, in different ways. Use it to end combos, use it to attack someone under you etc, find uses man =/

 

[VietGeek]

dair is incredibly safe onstage in b+

it was one of the few "safe" moves on block in vB and now it has a deduction in landing lag.

Plus if your opponent was moving and got hit by a windbox, he/she will be pushed back further thanks to momentum capture.

Dair is a lot better in all areas now. Still not an extremely good move, but it has become an honorable mention.

 

[RageKev!]

It is amazing on stage, you can ask anyone of the people from montreal who play me. I can even get them in here telling you how good it is on stage. It has great recovery time, and is safe to use. There is no reason to change it. Just try using it on stage more, in different ways. Use it to end combos, use it to attack someone under you etc, find uses man =/

Hi, I'm a guy from Montreal.

Dair is good. Really. You can get both hits in most of the time, the lag is nearly nonexistent, the windboxes inhibit most punish attempts if you miss and I believe you are pretty much guaranteed to hit both times if you do it out of a grounded footstool.

Although you can't really kill with it ''like you could in meelee'' who cares? The move is already incredibly safe and a good string ender as is. Just because a move doesn't kill, it doesn't mean it sucks and vice-versa.

I played Zaf's Tl pretty often and his Dair is a pain i the ***. I'm pretty sure it doesn't need to be buffed.

Oh and Zaf didn't ask me to post here, I just favorited this thread for the lulz, since it's funny that Zaf is always asking for buffs - that and the fact that Zaf is cute. <3

 

[TLMSheikant]

...Are u guys joking...Dair is super easy to punish. Its true that if it hits a shield it is safe but on whiff it is still extremely punishable.

 

[VietGeek]

maybe it only works for zaf cuz he's cute idk <3

 

[zaf]

haha, i think its the move i get landed the most >_>;

 

[kr3wman]

Hey guys, I'm from montreal, and I'm here to say TL's dair is a pretty good move onstage.

but I won't say he's cute. He already knows.

EDIT : No ****ing homo.

:l

 

[Jer]

Dair is a VERY good move on stage, i would know considering i play zaf the most of everyone here.


And do i even need to say he's mad cute

 

[sffadsad]

...Are u guys joking...Dair is super easy to punish. Its true that if it hits a shield it is safe but on whiff it is still extremely punishable.

Why don't you tell them how you're getting punished? Exact situations.

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it kind of the point to be able to punish a missed attack?

 

[RageKev!]

...Are u guys joking...Dair is super easy to punish. Its true that if it hits a shield it is safe but on whiff it is still extremely punishable.

[SARCASM] True dat.

I should go back to the Luigi boards and ask for moar shoryuken buffs. It's mad punishable if you don't hit or sourspot. [/SARCASM]

 

[VietGeek]

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it kind of the point to be able to punish a missed attack?

This is true.

TL's dair is not the only thing that has become "safe" in B+ either. <_<

 

[GHNeko]

lol shield stun vs hitlag.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I wasnt asking for a buff to make it safer ugh. I was just asking for a slight buff to knockback, thats all. Actually tbh, I dont care for more buffs. Im just asking for random stuff and see if viet puts it in.

 

[zaf]

Asking for a safe move to be safer is a buff that won't happen. There aren't any changes that toon link can really have right now to buff him. He's quiet polished

 

[TLMSheikant]

Asking for a safe move to be safer is a buff that won't happen. There aren't any changes that toon link can really have right now to buff him. He's quiet polished

Did u read anything at all?

 

[Alphatron]

Did anybody test that TL pac that Viet posted?

 

[VietGeek]

probably not =<

anyway I think physics are quite where they could be yet.

Everything else I'd like people to try (especially Dsmash kill percentages and the fair angle change). Especially non-Toon Link users since TLs are mad bias rofl.

 

[zaf]

Yea we are bias, but the people who play with me aren't bias towards toon link. Most of my friends agree that he is perfect the way he is in 5.0 gold build and needs no changes.

Viet, what do you think of tumbling?

 

[VietGeek]

tumbling for toon link is a double-edged sword

it allows you to go for frame traps more consistently like uair chains

but it's also a tad harder to zair for counterattacks and whatnot

i'm not really adamantly for or against it i suppose

 

[zaf]

I find it unfair how they refuse to change the tumble for zair characters. It still leaves those few characters at a disadvantage. Teching is ******** now, i miss so techs for no reason cuz of tumble. I am not for it. I think the game was better at the 5.0 gold build. I hope the tumbling doesnt make it into the game.

Id prefer to beat people normally, then to beat them cuz they cant get out of tumble.

 

[ThatGuy]

I find it unfair how they refuse to change the tumble for zair characters. It still leaves those few characters at a disadvantage. Teching is ******** now, i miss so techs for no reason cuz of tumble. I am not for it. I think the game was better at the 5.0 gold build. I hope the tumbling doesnt make it into the game.

Id prefer to beat people normally, then to beat them cuz they cant get out of tumble.

That's not because of tumble, that's because you're not used to teching because you always airdodge instead of tech, lol. Tumble at the very least makes you tech more than usual.

Oh hi, I'm from Montreal, and Dair is an extremely risky move. Please make the move shoot tornados upon landing onstage. Thanks!

 

[zaf]

Nooooo, i mean if like i get hit and i know i am going to hit the ground, then i will tech it. But it just doesnt tech. The same thing happens to elef, and reggie =/

i know how to tech zz

 

[SymphonicSage12]

you just have terrible timing then. NOT TO MENTION THAT you can simply wiggle out of tumble.


I'm so sorry you can't just mash airdodge to get out mah strings anymore boi D:

BTW the WBR is thinking about changing NADT....or at least there's a fire-heated discussion about it in the GSH1 thread

 

[zaf]

you just have terrible timing then. NOT TO MENTION THAT you can simply wiggle out of tumble.


I'm so sorry you can't just mash airdodge to get out mah strings anymore boi D:

BTW the WBR is thinking about changing NADT....or at least there's a fire-heated discussion about it in the GSH1 thread

Naw i dont spam airdodges to get out of strings, i know how to di/smash di =]

Tumbling is just gimmicky, there is no need to keep adding all these elements to a game that was fine in the 5.0 gold build.

I know i can wiggle out of tumble, but lets say im at lower %'s and i get hit by a move like yoshi's bair. It could send me to the ground and i know how to tech this normally, but when i tech it doesnt work as it should in the 5.0 build =S

The 5.0 build is the tournament standard so i will continue to play this until the next build is released. If the next build has tumble then so be it.

zair is considered an attack, and therefore should be a legit move to cancel tumble.

 

[ThatGuy]

Well, in order to tech, you have to do it like half a second before you hit the ground. If you get hit by one of those early knockdown moves, you actually have to do the tech input as you're getting hit, not when you hit the ground.

Abuse those buffer frames =).

 

[zaf]

I am aware of this and i tech accordingly, but it still doesn't tech zz
For now i don't care about tumble, because it isn't in the 5.0 build >=]

 

[VietGeek]

Oh hi, I'm from Montreal, and Dair is an extremely risky move. Please make the move shoot tornados upon landing onstage. Thanks!

k k

 

[leafgreen386]

Well, in order to tech, you have to do it like half a second before you hit the ground. If you get hit by one of those early knockdown moves, you actually have to do the tech input as you're getting hit, not when you hit the ground.

Abuse those buffer frames =).

The tech window is actually 15 frames, so... 1/4 of a second (it was 20 frames in melee), and... I think you have it backwards. It only works if you've pressed the shield button within 15 frames of making contact with the stage; if you press it before that 15 frame window you will fail to tech. The only time you need to put in the input to tech before you get hit is if you're trying to force a collision with the stage with SDI. Otherwise, it's actually easier/more consistent to press the button to tech after you have been launched, since hitlag is included in those 15 frames. Additional note: you can't input the command to tech during hitlag.

If you're missing techs, you're probably teching too early.

 

[ThatGuy]

The tech window is actually 15 frames, so... 1/4 of a second (it was 20 frames in melee), and... I think you have it backwards. It only works if you've pressed the shield button within 15 frames of making contact with the stage; if you press it before that 15 frame window you will fail to tech. The only time you need to put in the input to tech before you get hit is if you're trying to force a collision with the stage with SDI. Otherwise, it's actually easier/more consistent to press the button to tech after you have been launched, since hitlag is included in those 15 frames. Additional note: you can't input the command to tech during hitlag.

If you're missing techs, you're probably teching too early.

Are you discounting the 5-10 frames of buffer people have? That makes it 20-25 frames to tech, which is not quite a half second, but close to it.

I understand that inputting a tech command during hitlag will not count. The reason I said that it was best to input the tech command as you get hit is because hitlag is severely diminished - if not gone entirely - from Brawl+. Getting hit is a visual cue to input the tech command.

Now let's say the average human reaction time is .250 seconds (complete guesstimate). .25 seconds = 15 frames. Now considering that he is talking about low-knockback attacks, we're looking at a <=30 frame window to push the trigger. Not only that, but (unless you have a modified controller) it also takes multiple frames to actually push the trigger down to register the button press.

TL;DR: If you're missing techs in this situation, it's probably because you're teching too late.

EDIT: After a couple minutes of thinking, the buffer might not work that way, lol. But that doesn't even matter in this case.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

lol leaf is right. you want to tech as last as possible before hitting the ground.

 

[kr3wman]

I tech way too early then.

 

[zaf]

Viet, can you make a pac for me lol?

I was wondering if you could make toon links upb ( grounded) have the same properties as rollout/egg-roll. Make the damage relatively low, but have the same kgb as yoshi's?.
Do you think you can make the charge up, similar to the way jiggz charges up? and possibly the control of either move would be cool.
I want to see how this would work out, i in no means want this implicated, its simply for myself.