Smash 3DS 3ds hold the game back

[soviet prince]

so with the new news can we expect a small roster now?

 

[SKM_NeoN]

No.

However I do agree with your topic, the 3DS version is taking development time away from the only version anyone really cares about.

 

[Frostwraith]

No.

However I do agree with your topic, the 3DS version is taking development time away from the only version anyone really cares about.

Well, excuse me. I care for the 3DS version and probably am not alone.

 

[Lugubrious]

Personally I'm not worried. If the Wii U could hold 50 GB and the 3DS 49, he'd still have to announce that there might be limitations. Those aren't the real numbers of course, but the real limitations won't be staggering. Anyone thinking that this SSB will have fewer characters than Brawl because of these limitations might just need a chill pill. Additionally, since Sakurai must know that the players prioritize characters over story mode, he might reroute some storage--Subspace Emissary counted for the lion's share of Brawl's memory. I still predict at least forty characters.

No.

However I do agree with your topic, the 3DS version is taking development time away from the only version anyone really cares about.

The 3DS has sold way more than the Wii U thus far. If they shortchanged the (by the current standpoint) more popular version, people will get upset and money will be lost.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

The 3DS has sold way more than the Wii U thus far. If they shortchanged the (by the current standpoint) more popular version, people will get upset and money will be lost.

I don't care about Nintendo's bank account or 3DS owners in general. SSB4 is going to be superior on the Wii U. It's ridiculous that the Smash team is getting held back because of the stupid 3DS.

 

[Artsy Omni]

I don't care about Nintendo's bank account or 3DS owners in general. SSB4 is going to be superior on the Wii U. It's ridiculous that the Smash team is getting held back because of the stupid 3DS.

It's ridiculous that you think your own values are the values of the majority. >_>

 

[Pyra]

Well, excuse me. I care for the 3DS version and probably am not alone.

Seconded. I'm getting both versions.

I'm sure Sakurai and his crew are going to delay the game further if it isn't god-tier quality when it comes out.
I don't mind if it takes a long time to make a good game.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

It's ridiculous that you think your own values are the values of the majority. >_>

I don't mean for my opinions to sound so polarizing. The Wii U is simply a more powerful system and has far greater potential than the 3DS in terms of visual quality, gameplay mechanics, online capabilities, and control. I'm all for a 3DS version but let another team handle that altogether, and whatever limitations they're having with the 3DS shouldn't impact the Wii U version in the least.

 

[DakotaBonez]

The problem doesn't lie within the memory, that's what special cartridges/discs and sd cards are for.
The problems are characters like Olimar and The Ice Climbers, who have an extra cpu following them on the screen (Nana and the Pikmin) which will cause hell on the framerate of multiplayer on the 3DS. Due to that they may have to consider altering those characters in a way in which I'm sure everyone won't really care about, Like having to play as one ice climber at a time.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Also, The team knew what they signed up for making 2 versions. It's not like they're only going to take the amount of time that they would to develop just one game. That would be stupid. They will take whatever time is necessary to create 2 experiences that are as cohesive as they would be if developed in isolation.

These people are professional developers, not some indie first-timers. They know how to manage the scope of a project. When the scope is larger, you take more time. Basic principle.

 

[Artsy Omni]

The problem doesn't lie within the memory, that's what special cartridges/discs and sd cards are for.
The problems are characters like Olimar and The Ice Climbers, who have an extra cpu following them on the screen (Nana and the Pikmin) which will cause hell on the framerate of multiplayer on the 3DS. Due to that they may have to consider altering those characters in a way in which I'm sure everyone won't really care about, Like having to play as one ice climber at a time.

It amuses me that people think they understand just how much a character like Ice Climbers impacts CPU usage. You're all acting like Nana increases CPU usage exponentially or something. Are we forgetting that games like Pikmin have to manage WAY more entities than Olimar or Ice Climbers have to account for?

The Ice Climbers are nothing more than a slightly complex state machine. Nana receives information from what Popo is currently doing every tick and responds accordingly, as well as responding to player feedback if certain conditions are met and doing something else if they aren't. If/else stuff. Any computer-controlled player entity is doing nearly the exact same thing (reading and responding to its opponent's actions at any given moment and acting accordingly). In fact, computer players are more complex than Nana, because the possible outcomes of any given situation are more numerous, whereas Nana basically just imitates Popo or tries to position herself in order to fulfill the conditions under which she is able to do so.

Sakurai mentions one halfway-hypothetical example of how the 3DS has some limitations and people blow it out of proportion.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

Also, The team knew what they signed up for making 2 versions. It's not like they're only going to take the amount of time that they would to develop just one game. That would be stupid. They will take whatever time is necessary to create 2 experiences that are as cohesive as they would be if developed in isolation.

These people are professional developers, not some indie first-timers. They know how to manage the scope of a project. When the scope is larger, you take more time. Basic principle.

yeah but now we're hearing that the problems they are having with the 3DS may impact some characters on the Wii U. You may have to say goodbye to your avatar, or deal with a severe revamp of his play style.

Edit: You still have to consider the possibility that 4 IC's in one game may put a lot of stress on the 3DS' limited capabilities.

 

[Pyra]

This will be my one and only post regarding the 3DS "limitations" on the game.

Don't worry your pretty little heads about it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Besides, the 3DS version shouldn't really have that horrible of a time with development. It's at least on par with the Wii hardware wise, and the game cards can potentially hold up to 8 GB of data. So, I do question what the excuses are.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Your right, it's just that he mentioned having trouble with the ice climbers in particular for whatever reason

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/smash-bros-wii-u-3ds-might-not-release-at-the-same-time

 

[Artsy Omni]

yeah but now we're hearing that the problems they are having with the 3DS may impact some characters on the Wii U. You may have to say goodbye to your avatar, or deal with a severe revamp of his play style.

People like to focus on that, and completely ignore Sakurai's statement that they are doing the best they can to make such instances as few as possible. People need to stop acting like a game in development is some beast that they have to keep sedated. The developers are completely in control of this game, and are capable of making compromises for the sake of what is more important. In a game like Smash, character's are of primary concern, so they would certainly reduce the complexity of stages in order to facilitate the complexity of characters.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Your right, it's just that he mentioned having trouble with the ice climbers in particular for whatever reason

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/smash-bros-wii-u-3ds-might-not-release-at-the-same-time

People need to think more about how they interpret that statement.

"How to ACCOMODATE characters that incorporate more than one fighter."

In this situation, the "character that incorporates more than one fighter" is the independent variable, with all other factors being subordinate.

 

[Pyra]

Your right, it's just that he mentioned having trouble with the ice climbers in particular for whatever reason

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/smash-bros-wii-u-3ds-might-not-release-at-the-same-time

I suppose I'll make one more post about it.

Perhaps there is simply a programming issue on the 3DS involving characters with more than one character in their.... character.
Pokemon Trainer, Ice Climbers, Samus, and Zelda come to mind. Nothing more than that. I'm sure whatever it is they'll get around it.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

No, the Wii U version is taking development time away from the 3DS version

Who has a Wii U anyways?

 

[Luigi player]

I wish they would just make more characters for the Wii U version. I mean, there will be no crossover play anyway, so the only point I'm seeing is that people will want to buy the Wii U version mostly since they want more characters available to them. (which is a pretty big point and probably why they are doing it >_<)

After all these great games for the Wii U will come out I'm sure many people will buy one.
I bought a 3DS for Pokemon X/Y already, and I'll probably buy a Wii U for some of the awesome games (Smash4, DKC:TF, Sonic Lost World, some other Mario games..).

I might buy the 3ds Smash4 to have it available all the time/everywhere, but in an interview they said it might take even longer to come out than the Wii U version, because of it's restrictions concerning some stuff (like ICs). And if it comes out later everyone will buy the Wii U version already. It's possible that many will just not buy the 3ds version because they will already have the Wii U one...

 

[SKM_NeoN]

The fact that Sakurai is even suggesting the 3DS may put limits on SSBWiiU's roster is troubling in my eyes. Any argument against this claim is just wishful thinking.

 

[Pyra]

The fact that Sakurai is even suggesting the 3DS may put limits on SSBWiiU's roster is troubling in my eyes. Any argument against this claim is just wishful thinking.

Ahem.
I will retort with this: If it's necessary let it happen.

 

[Artsy Omni]

I suppose I'll make one more post about it.

Perhaps there is simply a programming issue on the 3DS involving characters with more than one character in their.... character.
Pokemon Trainer, Ice Climbers, Samus, and Zelda come to mind. Nothing more than that. I'm sure whatever it is they'll get around it.

Hmm... It's not a programming issue. That wouldn't really make any sense. It's a resource management issue. Resources is the factor that is inconsistent between the two devices. The way the characters are programmed (i.e.: the code that determines how the characters function) should be identical between the two versions, given both are Nintendo consoles that utilize the same native code. It's not like developing for two radically different platforms such as Mac and PC, where it's often not a clean port.

 

[Pyra]

Hmm... It's not a programming issue. That wouldn't really make any sense. It's a resource management issue. Resources is the factor that is inconsistent between the two devices. The way the characters are programmed (i.e.: the code that determines how the characters function) should be identical between the two versions, given both are Nintendo consoles that utilize the same native code. It's not like developing for two radically different platforms such as Mac and PC, where it's often not a clean port.

Yeah, I realize this. It's been a long day, and I graduated today, and etc.
Allow me to flee to gather my thoughts on this issue.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Yeah, I realize this. It's been a long day, and I graduated today, and etc.
Allow me to flee to gather my thoughts on this issue.

Nice, dude. Congrats. =P I just graduated from college this past May, so I can relate. XP

Btw, I'm not necessarily arguing against your statements, if it's coming across that way.

 

[DakotaBonez]

I would only expect there to be a noticeable delay when switching pokemon or switching zelda's form like there was in Brawl. The only way around this is to load the character in before each match like they did with Sheik in Melee. Not sure if they could limit this to only when characters like Zelda are selected.

 

[Pyra]

Nice, dude. Congrats. =P I just graduated from college this past May, so I can relate. XP

Btw, I'm not necessarily arguing against your statements, if it's coming across that way.

No it hasn't. Just correcting me. Slightly embarrassing since I'll be a Computer Science major when I start college this year and probably should have known that
And I did, but I just worded it incorrectly, I guess.

 

[DefenseTech]

Handhelds are amazing these days, I dont think (or hope) we will see a watered down Wii version because of the 3ds version...

Having said that...

I REALLY dont want to see Wii release dates pushed back or a cast reduction due to the 3ds

 

[Artsy Omni]

I think we can also put this in perspective by remembering that the 3DS operates with roughly the same amount of resources as the Gamecube (if not more in certain cases). The Ice Climbers were fine in Melee, so I see no reason why they would have to be fundamentally reworked for the 3DS unless they're squandering resources on things that don't need to be there. Like crazy stages.

 

[D. Disciple]

It's not gonna hinder the release of the home console version.

the limitation pertains to the lack of no secondary stick on a 3DS.

 

[Pyra]

It's not gonna hinder the release of the home console version.

the limitation pertains to the lack of no secondary stick on a 3DS.

...What?
...Am I missing something? I don't think that's the issue. I realize people like using the C-stick for easy smashes and nimble aerials but that certainly wouldn't hinder progress.

 

[Maricalistaro]

I'd say it's character reduction as in Ice Climbers and Pokemon Trainer. Having a smaller roster on 3ds makes no sense whatsoever. The wii and 3ds have the same storage capacity and brawl could have fit way more character if you removed the Sub Space Emissary data which took up a majority of the storage data on the disk. That said, there are probably going to be character cuts regardless so you should probably steel yourselves for that possibility.

 

[D. Disciple]

...What?
...Am I missing something? I don't think that's the issue. I realize people like using the C-stick for easy smashes and nimble aerials but that certainly wouldn't hinder progress.

It's one of the factors I came up with, I'm thinking that and the fact of other features. Campaign mode, or whatever else 1st player modes. They could take certain parts out that could prove a problem in making sure all the data fits on the 3DS. But not mentioning c-stick factors that melee and brawl gave us, could be one of the features that they would have to re-work on the 3DS but that solution would be to format it as if was on N64.

 

[Pyra]

It's one of the factors I came up with, I'm thinking that and the fact of other features. Campaign mode, or whatever else 1st player modes. They could take certain parts out that could prove a problem in making sure all the data fits on the 3DS. But not mentioning c-stick factors that melee and brawl gave us, could be one of the features that they would have to re-work on the 3DS but that solution would be to format it as if was on N64.

There is no "data fitting" issue.
C-stick isn't a very important issue (in my opinion).
Maybe I'm just too sleepy to understand. My apologies.

 

[IsmaR]

If the 3DS didn't hold the Wii U back, it'd outright bite off the ear of whatever it's competing against nowadays.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Man, I can't wait to see the Ice Climbers reveal so that we can finally put these silly fears to rest...

 

[Frostwraith]

Something that Sakurai has also stated is: if they can't implement something on the 3DS, but can do on the Wii U, it will simply be dropped from the 3DS version.

Also, Sakurai hasn't rejected the possibility of DLC, which may be good news for cut content that couldn't be implemented before, but I'm sure Sakurai would delay the game instead of releasing content as DLC.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I don't know why he makes it sound like characters take up so much space... Maybe they do, maybe they don't.

I just hope they don't include Trial Versions of VC games this time. And they'd do well to cut down on movies as well. I'm sure a minute long movie means at least 3 characters were sacrificed either by time, budget, or space issues.

 

[Luigi player]

Something that Sakurai has also stated is: if they can't implement something on the 3DS, but can do on the Wii U, it will simply be dropped from the 3DS version.

where does he say that?

 

[Frostwraith]

where does he say that?

Check this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/sakurai-confirms-3ds-version-wont-handicap-wii-u-version.337461/