2011 DDD Matchup Discussion #5: Falco

[ZTD | TECHnology]

CHARACTER DISCUSSION #5: FALCO

BBR MU Chart says: -2
DDD Boards say: Discussion is in progress.
Can we Chaingrab? No

The Brooklyn Bird is in the mix and stronger than ever. With a very strong camping and zoning game, superior close range skills, a strong Chaingrab and a very versatile moveset, Falco has the tools to compete with most opponents. In this battle between avian brethren, who comes out on top?




Information we need:


-Both Characters Ground/Air Game Against Each Other-
-Moves To Avoid And How To Avoid Them-
-King Dedede's Moves To Utilize In The Matchup-
-Personal Strategies To Help With The Matchup-
-Stage Discussion For Starters, Counterpicks, And Bans-

 

[DewDaDash]

when u approach its -2. When u ban FD and camp on the platform, its 60-40 or slightly less.

I don't really feel like explaining myself since most of u will just think im crazy.

 

[allshort17]

I feel like when we have to approach that's mainly when the MU goes down hill. Laser camping force us to pick an option to approach which all can be punished easily. Airdodge can be beat by a quick DACUS, spotdodge can be beat by the same, dash attack, a well spaced Fsmash or grab too. And sheilding can be grabbed. Jumping over lasers doesn't really do much because all attacks you do can be powersheilded and grabbed. Speaking of grab, stupid chain grab. he gets at most %40 on the grabs plus a free follow up with can allow him to:

1. Dair us off stage
2. Usmash us up into the air
3. Run back and laser camp

All not good places to be.

However, Falco in the above is just as bad as us above him. We can Utilt all his aerials or sheildgrab. Also Falco on the edge of the stage is a pretty good position for us. He'll have no room to run back and camp so eventually if he decides to do that we'll get to him and be able to sheildgrab him. His Phantasm can be beaten by utilt and Bair or we could just punish the ending lag easily if he decides to run away with it. Our Ftilt, Dtilt, and Bair all outrange his grab and jab I beileve. Any aerial approach he does can be sheildgrabbed or beaten by Utilt. Any grounded smash, tilt, or dash attack can be sheildgrabbed or just outspace. So, that's a very good place to have him.

Offstage is also good. He falls fast and have no way to stall in the air so he has to recover quick. He'll mainly recover with phantasm which can be beaten by the moves I listed above. If you don't feel confident in punishing with those you can just punish the end lag if he lands on stage or let him get on the ledge and take a guess on how he will get off the ledge, but I suggest staying away from letting him do the latter and if so let it happen very little. If he starts to Up-B then Lol. Punish it with the aerial of your choosing or ledge hog him. To get him offstage, Dthrow is a great option because since he falls fast he has to immediately double jump or Up-B, both easy to punish and gimp him.

I believe the easiest way to make the MU easier is to pick a stage that interferes with his camping or recovery. I say a good stage to take him to is Castle Siege because the first transformation is small and gives him little room to camp and also can be easily be caught under the lip of the stage. The second transformation is big with lots of platforms to run away and help approach with and the statues can absorb lasers. Just don't be CG'ed of the walkoff. The last transformation is pretty bad because it's flat, however the blastzones are all very far away meaning both you and him won't die easily. Battlefield is also good because of the platforms and Lylat Cruise is good for the same reasons, the tilting and interfere with his recovery, and platform canceling gives a little more mobility. Final destination should be banned because it is large and has no platforms.

tr;dr vesion:
*Lasers force you to approach
*Has a easily chaingrab on you that gives lots of damage and good follow-ups off of it
*Gimp him offstage
*We can't CG him
*Watch out for grab,jab, and DACUS
*To me, CS Lylat and BF are good and FD isn't

I believe the MU is -2 in Falco's favor.

Please anyone correct me if any information I said was wrong.

 

[DewDaDash]

u dont have to approach necessarily... the moment u get chaingrabbed is when u lose the match for the most part. Just powershield every single laser and camp the platform and catch him off guard with a dair or something and then u can approach more once uve exchanged hits and ur at atleast 45% or so. Oh and u dont have to get d-air off stage if you SDI towards stage.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Also bait phantasm if you can. It's a free grab at the very least, far more if you learn to punish it.

 

[Laem]

Dedede can't juggle falco too well cuz falco can often times sideb to the other side of the stage and d3 will be too slow to catch him lol, its pretty sad.
Anyway as said, an approaching falco is quite doable. Camping falco is pretty homo.
Ban FD, play it safe at low %s and who knows. To get kills spam utilt while he's lasering you. Eventually he'll sideb into it :D (utilt beats sideb like a CHAMP, if you didn't know, like, Mach Tornado consistently)
Watch out for: his spotdodge. It's d3's bane.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

-Both Characters Ground/Air Game Against Each Other-
-Moves To Avoid And How To Avoid Them-
-King Dedede's Moves To Utilize In The Matchup-
-Personal Strategies To Help With The Matchup-
-Stage Discussion For Starters, Counterpicks, And Bans-

The Ground game: He will try his hardest to chaingrab in the beggining. If his
cg to spike doesn't kill you, he will then try to setup some juggles and combo's
for damage, with laser spams in the mix, and then finish us off.Our logical solution
would be to stay in the air until he is put on the defensive, where he is less
likely to go for the kill. But this is the ground game, so waddles will have to work
when it comes to stopping his lasers. When he closes in, our d-tilt and f-tilt can
space him, keeping us safe from his jab and dash. Careful use of the short hop
b-air and d-tilt will wrack up damage, but it's up to the player to ultimatley
work their own close up magic.


Air game is a little better Assuming you are above or on even level, you
can wreak him with d-air and b-air, which tromp all his air game. Again, being
beneath him is bad, since his d-air is fast and his fall speed might make it
tough for you to use u-air. We fall faster, have more jumps, and a better
recovery, so I would say our air game is better.


Moves to avoid: alot. His lasers, grabs and quick smashes being on top of the list.
Most of his moves have a good chance of being used against us, since
they are all solid in this matchup. But his ground range is not as good as ours,
so the best way to avoid his worst moves would be to space properly and
make good use of the waddle shield.

Our moves to use: namely the same we would use on any other.
F-tilt, d-tilt, u-tilt, d-smash b-air and our grabs. We have no cg, which
hurts since he has one on us. The f-tilt would be primarily to space, d-tilt
to help close up( cause our jab sucks ), u-tilt for the close up ground
KO, d-smash for the punishing and medium range KO, b-air for anything
above ground, and grabs because they are so amazing. Even without cg.


Personal strategies: Stay off the ground till he loses interest in the cg.
Mind the lasers with waddles, and learn to punish his few good approaches.
Off the ledge he is junk, so be ready to make him regret it if he chooses to
chase. A good b-throw off the back of the ledge, and he should have no chance
of getting back on. I mean, we all know his recovery plan... side b.

I don't know enough about the stages in this MU, so nothing there.
I'm no pro, and some of this may be biased or incorrect, since it
is all just my opinion, but that is what you asked for. Hope it helps.

 

[-DR3W-]

Dededes...don't force the grab.

Punish phantasm with utilt, dtilt, or simply shield it.
Trying to be a typical grab ***** will screw you over bad. Because most of you will mix up grab with spotdodge, and Falco destroys spotdodge.

Powershield a LOT and be patient. Stay at (Dedede) ftilt range.

Play a react game not aggressive, notice flaws & patterns in the Falco player and get past the laser camping.

 

[Host Change]

Falco certainly has a better time in the air. His bair and nair seem to be quite useful against Dedede as well as his dair. Typically I will laser like any Falco would but something to keep in mind is don't throw too many projectiles against Falco. (Last Dedede I played in tournament friendlies did that and I was able to freshen up my kill moves by lasering them) When Falco uses the laser, it forces Dedede to approach. In this situation I punish bad approaches with ftilt most of the time or phantasm safely away.

The best thing for Dedede to do in this matchup is to notice patterns, punish bad phantasms etc. Ban Final Destination and try to take him to one of his bad stages. (Not sure how good/bad Brinstar is for Dedede, but that and RC are nightmares for Falco. I could see RC however not being a good counterpick for D3) Yoshi's Island is not a bad choice because it will slow down Falco's lasers (due to its size and the middle platform tilting blocks the double laser at times) and it's a lot smaller giving Dedede the advantage with the powerhouse that he is. Also I should add that ironically Lylat is also bad for Falco. That's a good choice as well....

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I wish yume were here lol

People have covered much of the other stuff. DDD still lives to dang long and killing him is difficult. You don't die from an Usmash until 160% (with best DI). Bair then becomes the other standard kill move which unless it's near the ledge and the strong hit won't be KOing until an equally as high percent. It's like fighting snake only we have ground options that really shut you down for not having a quick move to counter with.

Just because it can go so wrong if Falco gets killed early and punished for trying to get a kill when behind, I'd say this match-up can go very even at times. Otherwise, falco has a decent advantage.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

If we grab Falco out of Phantasm and he ground releases, we have a guaranteed dash attack.

Just throwing that out.

 

[DellSmashman]

I would say best stages to take Falco as Dedede are Frigate, Lylat, RC, Brinstar, and probably Delfino. Definitely ban Final Destination though, despite possibly being taken to Japes. Falco is probably better than us at every neutral besides Lylat (don't know how good we do in YI or PS1).

Imo matchup is around -1 to -2 Falco's favor.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

*reserved for semi detailed TC summary*

 

[∫unk]

I used to be good at this matchup now I suck